"Psychedelic Death" vs "Physical Death"

[Vladimir]

I've heard Leo say that "ego death" and "physical death at the end of our lives" is the same thing. But then in other videos, he says "who knows what really happens", so which one is it Leo? 

Also, if we consider karma, our level of consciousness and how it transfers or unravels based on that, and if we look at the Tibetan Book of the Dead and see how this process could possibly unfold, then.....wouldn't it be best to do everything and anything that we possibly can during our life times to work on cleansing ourselves of our karma by increasing our levels of consciousness, healing our deep emotional traumas and striving to become Christ like. 

This of course is looking at this from the duality perspective, but how can consciousness all of a sudden become Nothingness, if say a person is living within a very rigid physical reality framework and has accumulated a lot of trauma? Wouldn't they not reincarnate if we are all reunited with Nothingness at the end of our "physical lives"?

From a lot of my personal psychedelic experiences oh mushrooms and ayahuasca, there are just too many similarities to what they describe in the book of the dead.

So then why is it that "it doesn't matter" what happens and what you do after you reach Enlightenment? Wouldn't you want to work on your "perspective" as a human being so you can end up in a better place after your body expires?

[Leo Gura]

You are overlooking a very important point: that "you" is an illusion. After enlightenment, you're not identified with being human any more. Your identification shifted to Nothingness and therefore Everything. So there is nothing to improve because you are the whole universe in all its possible forms.

How can you improve infinity? Infinity includes every possible state. So there's nowhere to run.

Moreover, the concept of "improvement" only makes sense if you assume time exists. And at higher levels of consciousness, it doesn't. You become so present to the NOW that you cannot even conceptualize a future in which something could be better or worse. And of course the concepts "better" and "worse" are just judgments of the ego-mind to begin with.

[Guest Quanty]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are overlooking a very important point: that "you" is an illusion. After enlightenment, you're not identified with being human any more. Your identification shifted to Nothingness and therefore Everything. So there is nothing to improve because you are the whole universe in all its possible forms.

How can you improve infinity? Infinity includes every possible state. So there's nowhere to run.

Moreover, the concept of "improvement" only makes sense if you assume time exists. And at higher levels of consciousness, it doesn't. You become so present to the NOW that you cannot even conceptualize a future in which something could be better or worse. And of course the concepts "better" and "worse" are just judgments of the ego-mind to begin with.

After Enlightenment one is fully identified with the human nature and the being. Human Being is the gate of everything, including you the reader. If a human being fully identifies with nothingness, what we see as the whole universe outside of the human body/mind, then that human being dies, literally. So awakening is from inside out, not from outside of the body/mind (nothingness to in <human>). In itself, the body/mind of each of us is literally infinite, the direct hologram of everything else. 

[Nahm]

 @VladimirGiven the choice between reliving trauma in my mind everyday for the rest of my life (a thought) because I identify with it, and experiencing the trauma again, I’d choose the trauma.  “If I’m God, why would I have had that happen to me?” is a very sneaky statement. The ego uses the trauma (a memory) to reinforce itself as  “me”.  That way it can shit all over everyone, whenever it wants, with a feeling of justification. But it’s just a thought. A memory is just a thought. It’s powerless. Other thoughts the ego uses; reincarnation, death, karma, becoming, levels, physical lives, better place.  The brain is the most miraculous maya and deeply underestimated. It won’t even pause before weaving a story much bigger than this life, with heavens and hells - just to protect a false identity. On a trip, the mind is free, it is hard to think. Can’t even use a cell phone. Identity must be free, surrendered. If identity is held on to during a trip, we’ll have “hell” to pay for it. You’ve paid enough imo Vlad. That false identity is hell. You can say to the psychadelic “I am this, which this happened to”, and it will Truth you right in the nuts. The Truth has always won, and will always win, there is no opponent, only ideas of opponents. Humility is the way.  If the brain can think it’s way to resolving the trauma / identity then I am completely ignorant as to how - otherwise, it must be let go of, surrendered. It’s too big. Give it to God. 

[JustinS]

@Leo Gura Leo, do you still plan on doing some more 5meo in the future after such powerful trips in Hawaii? How about other psychedelics such as shrooms, al-lad, or lsd? 

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, JustinS said:

@Leo Gura Leo, do you still plan on doing some more 5meo in the future after such powerful trips in Hawaii? How about other psychedelics such as shrooms, al-lad, or lsd? 

Yes, I've since had even more powerful trips, and I've even found a more powerful psychedelic than 5-MeO-DMT.

[Slade]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I've since had even more powerful trips, and I've even found a more powerful psychedelic than 5-MeO-DMT.

Whhaaaaaat? Do tell! 

[WaveInTheOcean]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, I've since had even more powerful trips, and I've even found a more powerful psychedelic than 5-MeO-DMT.

What is the name of that psychedelic? And in which way is it more powerful than 5-MeO-DMT?

[JustinS]

@WaveInTheOcean C'mon now, you know thats a whole episode of its own. ?

[Guest Quanty]

No psychedelic beats the 5 angles with the breath combined into the eye.  

[Vladimir]

Quote

You are overlooking a very important point: that "you" is an illusion. After enlightenment, you're not identified with being human any more. Your identification shifted to Nothingness and therefore Everything. So there is nothing to improve because you are the whole universe in all its possible forms.

How can you improve infinity? Infinity includes every possible state. So there's nowhere to run.

Moreover, the concept of "improvement" only makes sense if you assume time exists. And at higher levels of consciousness, it doesn't. You become so present to the NOW that you cannot even conceptualize a future in which something could be better or worse. And of course the concepts "better" and "worse" are just judgments of the ego-mind to begin with.

But your ego is still here and you still have a life to live even after all of your Enlightenment experiences. You say the prime directive in life should be to "improve the quality of consciousness" why should one do that? We're all striving to reconnect with Being so we can enjoy our lives here instead of suffering, and there are many levels to go through before one can become Enlightened. I feel like this approach to "Become Enlightened or Suffer" is way too harsh and leads to a lot of traumatic experiences as people try to kill their Ego and end up facing something they're not ready to face. I think the entire approach should be focused on "healing" rather than "dying" and the best medicine which helps you deal with emotional traumas is Ayahuasca, though people need to be careful not to go too deep into the experience and stay in the duality phase, where real healing takes place.

[Vladimir]

Quote

 @VladimirGiven the choice between reliving trauma in my mind everyday for the rest of my life (a thought) because I identify with it, and experiencing the trauma again, I’d choose the trauma.  “If I’m God, why would I have had that happen to me?” is a very sneaky statement. The ego uses the trauma (a memory) to reinforce itself as  “me”.  That way it can shit all over everyone, whenever it wants, with a feeling of justification. But it’s just a thought. A memory is just a thought. It’s powerless. Other thoughts the ego uses; reincarnation, death, karma, becoming, levels, physical lives, better place.  The brain is the most miraculous maya and deeply underestimated. It won’t even pause before weaving a story much bigger than this life, with heavens and hells - just to protect a false identity. On a trip, the mind is free, it is hard to think. Can’t even use a cell phone. Identity must be free, surrendered. If identity is held on to during a trip, we’ll have “hell” to pay for it. You’ve paid enough imo Vlad. That false identity is hell. You can say to the psychadelic “I am this, which this happened to”, and it will Truth you right in the nuts. The Truth has always won, and will always win, there is no opponent, only ideas of opponents. Humility is the way.  If the brain can think it’s way to resolving the trauma / identity then I am completely ignorant as to how - otherwise, it must be let go of, surrendered. It’s too big. Give it to God. 

I'm more interested in gradual, careful healing rather than throwing myself into the deepest depths of fear. The process of letting go can only happen if one has matured enough to be able to do that, otherwise you're going to create more fear, resistance and trauma. It's quiet sad to see this "push yourself to death and face your greatest fears or end up suffering hell" mentality in this community. 

[robdl]

4 minutes ago, Vladimir said:

I'm more interested in gradual, careful healing rather than throwing myself into the deepest depths of fear. The process of letting go can only happen if one has matured enough to be able to do that, otherwise you're going to create more fear, resistance and trauma. It's quiet sad to see this "push yourself to death and face your greatest fears or end up suffering hell" mentality in this community. 

I think it's fair to say that whether you go gradual or urgently and drastically is  a function of everyone's particular individuality.