Evil and lack of consciousness

[Why?]

@Leo Gura, you've mentioned in your most recent blog post "The God Debate" that evil comes from a lack of consciousness. For specificity's sake, to what is this lack of consciousness? To the consequences of one's actions, perhaps the lack of consciousness of one's emotions, or even the nature of reality itself?

I know this is just semantics but I'm just curious. 

And...are you ever going to debate Jordan Peterson? 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Why?

[Torkys]

When consciousness arises, resistance is sensed which is the both ego's substance and biggest fear. Doing evil is building and/or protecting resistance (aka the ego). These two are incompatible.

[Guest Quanty]

Evil is just a concept. 

And the evilest things in the world are promoted as enlightenment and good. 

 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Why? said:

For specificity's sake, to what is this lack of consciousness? To the consequences of one's actions, perhaps the lack of consciousness of one's emotions, or even the nature of reality itself?

Have you seen my video: What Is The Devil?

If not, you should really watch it. It's one of my best.

Evil is simply a judgment the ego-mind makes because it wants to survive. See? Anything that threatens your survival you will call "evil". It's as simple as that.

For example, the reason terrorists are thought of as evil by much of Western civilization is only because they threaten the survival of Western civilization.

If you didn't care about survival, nothing would be evil to you.

From God's perspective nothing is evil because God is infinite and cannot die. So it would be nice if you were able to switch your identification from being a human ego to being God. Then you'd stop seeing evil in the world. You'd see the world through God's eyes, which is ego-less.

Since low consciousness correlates to denser ego, it also correlates to greater selfishness and greater potential for "evil" -- that is, doing selfish acts. As consciousness increases, the ego thins out, and this correlates with selflessness. Selfless people have much less need to do selfish acts. They are more loving and caring and gentle because they are not preoccupied with their own survival.

An egoless person can sacrifice his life without much problem. Not because he is brave, but because he knows he's infinite and cannot really die.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Outer said:

I don't think they are evil, but I do think they should be put in jail for committing immoral crimes.

Notice, that this just your self-survival talking. "Immoral" is a judgment your ego-mind makes because these people threat your ability to survive.

"Immoral" and "evil" and "bad" are all the same basic judgment. Doesn't matter what label you use.

So yes, you in fact DO believe terrorists are evil. That requires consciousness work to overcome.

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Also,  by the way, there are a lot of people who hate Being. Jordan Peterson says these are the school shooters, mass murderers, etc.

Yes, low consciousness people -- especially people who have been through a lot of personal suffering -- are reacting against that suffering by inflicting it on others. But what Peterson is not telling you is that suffering is not bad or evil. And these people are not bad or evil. That irony is that there is nothing evil about ego or selfishness. It requires ego to judge that selfishness is wrong.

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

No enlightened person would ever say that there is no evil or unconsciousness in the world. Just because they know they are the self doesn't mean they loose their friggin minds. 

You should study enlightened masters more. The really enlightened ones say exactly that. This is actually one of the most essential features of enlightenment.

You are not deeply enlightened unless you realize that all meaning and value is a construct of the mind. "Evil" is an evaluation, and it is always a fantasy.

There can be no peace in you unless you realize that meaning and value are things your mind creates.

There can be no true love unless you are able to love the selfishness of others. What do you think Jesus taught you? Unconditional love. Which means, you cannot see evil any more.

Notice that as soon as you make a judgment or evaluation of any kind, you are automatically disconnected from Truth.

[Rinne]

Hey Leo when will you post your next blogs? Really excited for them. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Rinne said:

Hey Leo when will you post your next blogs? Really excited for them. 

In the next few days.

[Rinne]

@Leo Gura Awesome!

[MarkusSweden]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

You are not deeply enlightened unless you realize that all meaning and value is a construct of the mind. "Evil" is an evaluation, and it is always a fantasy.

 

Yes, but "evil" is a two sided coin, there is no evil in the world from an absolute perspective, that's where you should be grounded(as you are) that will bring everlasting peace that's unshakeable. 

But this is one side of the coin, we must be nuanced and not just cling to one side. There are tremendously suffering and evil going on in the world. And to adress that properly you must know both side of the coin. 

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Outer said:

How is it my self-survival when I'm not affected directly, but others?

 You are very much affected by others. "Survival" here means a lot more than just foraging for food and building shelter. You are a deeply social creature. You could not survive without other human beings. You are almost totally dependant on other human beings to keep you alive. Human survival is largely social. Which is why you care about your self-image so much. Which is why you'd be embarrassed to walk outside naked in the middle of New York City. It very much affects your survival. And which is why you might be scared to approach a girl and ask her on a date. Your survival is on the line all the time. Every action you take all day long is basically you grappling with survival. Every thought you have is you manipulating yourself to increase your survive.

Notice the truth of this.

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What about that guy who shot up the concert in Las Vegas? Would such people be put in jail in your enlightened society? Shall everyone just allow themselves to be mowed down, should all the cops not react to the shooting?

That's a survival question, which has nothing to do with Truth or enlightenment.

The question of "How do we build a good society?" is really the question of "How do I increase my odds at survival?"

There is nothing wrong with building a better society, but it is irrelevant to Truth. In fact, it's a big distraction from pursuing Truth. And if you try to build a better society from a position of survival, you will inadvertently cause a lot of suffering to people, because you're acting out of self-preservation, not genuine greater good.

Notice, that it is also possible to jail a person without calling him bad or evil. You could jail him with compassion and genuinely help him to heal. I am not saying we shouldn't have laws and jails. Laws and jails are necessary in a large, complex society. But what isn't necessary is the judgment, demonization, and self-righteousness that goes along with it.

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By the way, a guy who stopped the Church mass shooter felt "The Holy Spirit" on him as got a godly focus while he shot a bullet between the shooter's Kevlar with his AR15, 20 or so yards away.

That's fine. But that's an issue of survival. You can be enlightened and also be engaged in survival. But you're not likely to get enlightened so long as you're preoccupied with survival.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

But this is one side of the coin, we must be nuanced and not just cling to one side. There are tremendously suffering and evil going on in the world. And to adress that properly you must know both side of the coin.

You can know suffering without holding it as "evil" or "bad" or "wrong", or judging it.

Yes, there is a lot of suffering in the world. But it is not evil. And it necessary. And it is largely self-inflicted due to lack of consciousness. So if you really want to reduce suffering, it would be wise to stop judging it.

[MarkusSweden]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

You can know suffering without holding it as "evil" or "bad" or "wrong", or judging it.

Fair enough! 

[Leo Gura]

The following analogy might help you guys.

Survival is like living life inside The Matrix.

Truth/Enlightenment is like escaping The Matrix and realizing it's all a virtual simulation.

Then, once you've exited The Matrix, you can re-enter it, but this time you're aware that you're inside a virtual simulation. You still have to survive if you want to stay in The Matrix, but your survival is different than ordinary survival. Ordinary survival isn't self-aware, whereas now you are surviving in a self-aware manner, and you can even bend some of the rules of The Matrix, stopping time, dodging bullets, etc. But if one of those bullets hits you in the head, you're still gonna die. At least your avatar will.

Can you see how a question like, "How do we fight terrorism?" is a distraction from breaking free of The Matrix? Terrorism is part of the virtual simulation. If you get too wrapped up and angry about terrorism, you're losing sight of the bigger picture, which is that EVERYTHING you see is just a video game. You're getting lost in the video game world. You're confusing the video game world for Truth. Nothing is good or bad, because it's all just a video game.

Imagine if Mario, from Super Mario World, started to take his life seriously. That would be a problem. He would be too afraid of jumping on a platform, cause for him it would be life and death. He would think he only has 1 life. He would become angry and bitter at all these evil spikey dangerous turtles walking around. He would become blind to the fact that he and the turtles are actually all part of one unified simulation. And so the whole game would turn into a nightmare. All just because he takes himself too seriously.

Mario would start a political talk radio show where he rants against spikey turtles for corrupting the fabric of Mario World. He would call for a border wall to block the spikey turtles from entering Mario World. He would recruit other inhabitants of Mario World which align with his self-agenda to bolster his cause. The turtles would do the same. The two sides would demonize each other. And then you'd have an all-out battle between the two. Neither side realizing that it's all just a virtual simulation.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

you just judge their behaviour

Lol

Man, you really love your judgments, don't ya?

[blazed]

• Evil exists and is part of reality, deal with it.
   
• Anything that exists is God's will, or creation itself, how can god be wrong?
   
• Evil is a human concept, mind made, no other animal sits around debating whether something was an evil act, there is only pain and loss, but no mental debating/arguing, whats interesting and disturbing is when one lion kills another or animals that cannibalize each other, "we" humans see it as normal or dismiss it as nature, but when one person kills another OMFG apeshit crazy talk no wai.
   
• Pain is a survival tool of the brain, if you are born with pain disorder you won't feel any pain at all, and then death wouldn't actually be as scary anymore, a lot of these people die very early because they can't judge that there is something wrong with the body.
   
• Karma is action, Negative actions have consquences, punch someone, they will punch you back, kill someone and go to prison, do drugs, risk getting stabbed or shot, Sure sometimes Bad things happen for no reason, and good things happen for no reason. But your entire life is a result of all your accumulated actions. Ultimately you do positive things because you want your life to be better.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, John Lula said:

@Leo Gura I really wonder if the makers of The Matrix trilogy had knowledge about Truth. Or, if it just happens to be the most fascinating idea to put into a movie, and so they did.

I think they stole most of the idea from the novel, Neuromancer.

Neuromancer explicitly has a "the Matrix" in it.

From Wikipedia:

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The novel has had significant linguistic influence, popularizing such terms as cyberspace and ICE (Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics). Gibson himself coined the term "cyberspace" in his novelette "Burning Chrome", published in 1982 by Omni magazine.[18] It was only through its use in Neuromancer that the term Cyberspace gained enough recognition to become the de facto term for the World Wide Web during the 1990s.[19][20] The portion of Neuromancer usually cited in this respect is:

The matrix has its roots in primitive arcade games. … Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts. … A graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding.[21]

The 1999 cyberpunk science fiction film The Matrix particularly draws from Neuromancer both eponym and usage of the term "matrix".[22] "After watching The Matrix, Gibson commented that the way that the film's creators had drawn from existing cyberpunk works was 'exactly the kind of creative cultural osmosis" he had relied upon in his own writing.'"[23]

In his afterword to the 2000 re-issue of Neuromancer, fellow author Jack Womack goes as far as to suggest that Gibson's vision of cyberspace may have inspired the way in which the Internet developed (particularly the World Wide Web), after the publication of Neuromancer in 1984. He asks "[w]hat if the act of writing it down, in fact, brought it about?" (269).

 

[Faceless]

When the conditioned consciousness is cleared of dualistic movement “unawareness” only then is there virtue, “order” 

Evil is simply a manifestation/expression of disorderly thought, a disease of sorts. 

Like a cancer that has its own pattern and order.

But when it comes to relationship with one another and the environment, or “mutual interdependence”, this order of disorder in thought inevitably perpetuates the movement of what we call “evil action” or violent/destructive action. 

I think we can see this if we are free from our own accumulated prejudices, ‘THOUGHT’

 

 This is an important issue to understand. The question is do we want to understand it together?

Or do we want to continue that very disorder that causes the issue?....which takes the form of a resistance to suspend our own biases to meet one another mutually. 

To have a capacity to commune should be the first step. 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Faceless

[MarkusSweden]

12 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

You will be changing your mind soon. When you do I'll come back and remind you of how  you were just redefining Leo again.  You can't get away from the ego, every position you take, judgement vs non judgement is all dualistic. Just pick a framework most aligned with bringing your best gifts out and quit trying to make your finite mind into the infinate. You're already the infinate any way, no need to change your values or your ego. 

Why is Leos approach wrong? He is not naive, he admits suffering going on, he just don't judge it. 

Why do you have to judge it into evil and create unnecessary duality/separation. 

Everyone act according to their level of consciousness, low consciousness don't know it creates suffering to itself and others. 

We see that suffering but we don't lable it.

Why is it so important to label suffering into illusionary concepts like evil ? 

Edited June 2, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Robert]

@Etagnwo Thank you for contributing to this thread! You're on the right track with things! ? 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Robert