Truth doesn't exist, here's how!

[Eden]

I think we need to be open to the possibility that non-truth could exist. In the end we don't know anything and we're just machines. 

[Arkandeus]

truth is a playtoy for divinities like us

use it for maximum fun 

[MarkusSweden]

1 hour ago, InfinitePotential said:

Or, maybe Absolute Truth transcends existence and/or nonexistence altogether. To say it exists or to say it does not exist is not quite right. It is beyond all concepts including this one.

 

Right!

To say that truth doesn't exist is to give it too much credit! It's beyond nonexistence in a SCARY way, and I guess it's better left unsaid.

Truth is like infinite nonexistent, an infinite contradiction. 

To simply say truth doesn't exist gives it some sort of neutral quality. Truth is hell in its nonexistent way. Like an infinite inversion of itself.  

Edited May 31, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Arkandeus]

9 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

Well, this come to me during a trip where I wasn't reasoning at all. It was even more horrific then what I can express in a thread, in fact, it was infinite horrific. 

It was very real.. that if we lose every life line(illusions that is) even for a short millisecond we will be locked up in hell for eternity, an infinite hell for eternity. 

Man, I will never go near psychedelics again. I have had beautiful experiences as well, precisely those you mention, that everything is true, that truth is everything that is, that was so beautiful, so much love and peace to it. 

But! That VERY positive experience of resting with God in total bliss wasn't ANYWHERE near the horrific experience I had, that triumph the good experience by infinity. 

Being God was infinite love, it was too much of positive emotion, yet it can't even be measured compare to the horrific one. If God was infinite, hell was infinite raised to the power of infinity, infinite number of times(to use your metaphor) 

You see what I'm saying? 

I share your your pain, it was indeed an infinite hell but it ended

the truth is in happiness,in love, believe in feeling good, let me tell you that you deserve to feel good and have your most wildest dreams realized

Edited June 1, 2018 by Arkandeus

[MarkusSweden]

11 hours ago, InfinitePotential said:

I had a very similar experience, there was nothing, no illusion to hold onto, everything was seen to be purely illusory. It was much like a lucid dream.

I judged it as very scary at the time, but looking back, had I let go even further, I'm sure it would have been infinitely more... agreeable.

I'm glad you didn't let it go further. 

I didn't let go of my last lifelines(illusions) during my trip, but I saw that black hole that was darker then any experience can be.

That is darker and infinitely more 'painful'(pain beyond pain) then what any experience can offer.

To put it in a comparison.. 

An eternal hell where we are burned to death every second, yet without dying for all of eternity as we use to imagine hell when we were children would be a paradise in comparison. 

I had no idea that an absence of something, an absence of truth(call it what you want) could be that dark. A black hold where you rather be burn to death for eternity in that regular imaginary hell over entering that black hole even for a short nanosecond (But no such pleasurable thing as time exist there, neither that hole itself, so the metaphor is broken, but you see what I'm saying)

I know from my own experiences that God is infinite love and peace(although illusions). That's good of course, because God is really infinite, nothing less then that. It's just that hell is infinite raised to the power of infinity, infinite number of times. 

I would have prefer it was the other way around..

Edited June 1, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Pramit]

welcome to my world. Enjoy your trip in everlasting hell. Where even the experience of being in hell is an illusion. 

[Ananta]

7 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

To say that truth doesn't exist is to give it too much credit! It's beyond nonexistence in a SCARY way

Um, yeah, no.

Truth/awareness is Sat-chit-ananda, which indicates "limitless conscious existence".  Perhaps, insights while tripping on acid, aren't all that reliable. Just sayin' 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, blazed said:

Would you say existence and non-existence is the same thing? That this is the nothingness and we are in it. That consciousness and nothingness is the same, to put it into words consciousness arises from nothingness.

There is no such thing as non-existence, only existence. Non-existence is a concept existing in your mind.

Consciousness, existence, and Nothingness are all the same thing, but this "Nothingness" is not non-existence, it is existence. Existence is, and it is empty. Then it can get filled with all kinds of forms, one of which is the concept of non-existence.

Existence has no opposite. It only feels like it does because the ego-mind creates a conceptual "should", telling itself, "But why doesn't X exist?" But that is existence!

"Non-existence" exists within existence.

[blazed]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no such thing as non-existence, only existence. Non-existence is a concept existing in your mind.

Consciousness, existence, and Nothingness are all the same thing, but this "Nothingness" is not non-existence, it is existence. Existence is, and it is empty. Then it can get filled with all kinds of forms, one of which is the concept of non-existence.

Existence has no opposite. It only feels like it does because the ego-mind creates a conceptual "should", telling itself, "But why doesn't X exist?" But that is existence!

"Non-existence" exists within existence.

My understanding is because non-existance by its very nature and definition means that "it doesnt exist" it applies to itself as "non-existence", leaving only the possible thing "existance" to remain.

But the emptiness is full of non-existent and existent information, that's what I meant. Everything that is not within your awareness is non-existent to you.

If i showed a beautiful picture to a blind man, does it exist for him or not?

Non-existence could also be used as a word for emptiness, no self, nothingness. it's just another label or word like the rest of them.

The true self reveals itself when all sensory and mind activity has stopped yet there is an intense focus in the present moment or existence.

Anyway my biggest breakthrough was focusing on existence and non-existence at the same time, as in trying to verify what existence is, if its real, and i was intensely focusing on that point and suddenly I felt my whole body dissolve away and my mind activity stopped and I was overcome with powerful energy.

Words can't express it, it was the first time i felt something like that and it was a big deal for me because i don't do any drugs or substances so I am always as sober as heck and reality always feels as real as real can get (very grounded) so its extremely hard to enter these blissful states and noself states for me.

But it feels good to get glimpses of what is potentially there.

By the way I watched your lastest blog video and pretty much agreeing with everything you say, its almost the same as my own experience, I forgot to mention before my body dissolved away I was getting intense energy of death approaching almost like a panic attack and I actually remember I was surrendering to die and letting go of all the precious things to me, it wasn't like I was mentally letting go but more like i was dying, entering oblivion and leaving all these things behind, fortunately I don't have much to give up, makes it easier to surrender lol.

Edited June 1, 2018 by blazed

[blazed]

It really doesn't take a genius to realize that nonexistence counteracts itself. By that definition you are right consciousness is reflecting on something being absent.

You can call it somethingness in nothingness.

That's exactly like saying Existence within non-existence.

It's all the same shit for me.

What is real? because in that state everything is real and unreal.

Even saying "I am" or saying "this is existence" in that deep state breaks the state itself.

There is absolute no self reflection and no confirmation.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/nonexistent

synonyms.

Anyway just my experience, it really paid off for me to question existence itself.

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by blazed

[Ananta]

9 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

If only Ramana Maharshi did a trip - then he could be as enlightened as these guys, huh?

Yeah, right! Lol

[blazed]

"In the existence of your love, I have become non-existent. This non-existence linked to you is better than all existence" --Rumi

-------

"Non-existence is an Ocean and the world foam. The Sea’s boiling brings the foam into existence. Iran and Turan are but two of its flecks. In this boiling, tell me, what is effort? Why do these patient men boast of their patience?

God has made nonexistence appear existent and respectable; He has made Existence appear in the guise of nonexistence. He has hidden the Sea and made the foam visible. He has concealed the Wind and shown you the dust.

The whole world has taken the wrong way, for they fear nonexistence, while it is their refuge.

The Absolute Being works in nonexistence—what but nonexistence is the workshop of the Maker of existence?

Return from existence to nonexistence! You are seeking the Lord and you belong to Him! Nonexistence is a place of income, flee it not! The existence of more and less is a place of expenditure. God’s workshop is nonexistence, so everything outside the workshop is worthless.

What do I know if I exist or not? But this much I do know, oh Beloved: When I exist I am nonexistent, and when I am nonexistent I exist!

Were your body’s existence to be naughted, then your soul would be exalted—after naughting is complete, you will be in but God’s Oneness.

For a lifetime you have made trial of your own existence. Once you must try out nonexistence!

The beloved said, “You have done all these things, but open your ears wide and listen well: You have not accomplished the root of the root of love and devotion—what you have done is the branches.” The lover said, “Tell me, what is that root.” She said, “To die and become nonexistent.”

Therefore be bewildered and distraught, nothing less, so that God’s help may come to you from before and behind. Once you have become bewildered, dizzy, and annihilated, then your spiritual state will say, “Lead us on the Straight Path!”

In this path, anything other than confusion and madness is distance and alienation from God.

Oh God, show to the spirit that station where speech grows up without words, so the pure spirit may fly toward the wide expanse of Nonexistence—an expanse exceedingly open and spacious, from which this imagination and existence find nourishment.

Images are narrower than Nonexistence—therefore imagination is the cause of heartache. Existence is still narrower than imagination—therefore within it full moons become crescents. The existence of the world of sense perception and colors is still narrower, for it is a cramped prison.

The cause of narrowness is composition and multiplicity, and the senses drag toward composition. Know that the World of Unity lies in the other direction from the senses. If you want Oneness, go in that direction! -- Rumi

That's a lot of Non-existance talk from Rumi!

Edited June 1, 2018 by blazed

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, blazed said:

"In the existence of your love, I have become non-existent. This non-existence linked to you is better than all existence" --Rumi

-------

"Non-existence is an Ocean and the world foam. The Sea’s boiling brings the foam into existence. Iran and Turan are but two of its flecks. In this boiling, tell me, what is effort? Why do these patient men boast of their patience?

God has made nonexistence appear existent and respectable; He has made Existence appear in the guise of nonexistence. He has hidden the Sea and made the foam visible. He has concealed the Wind and shown you the dust.

The whole world has taken the wrong way, for they fear nonexistence, while it is their refuge.

The Absolute Being works in nonexistence—what but nonexistence is the workshop of the Maker of existence?

Return from existence to nonexistence! You are seeking the Lord and you belong to Him! Nonexistence is a place of income, flee it not! The existence of more and less is a place of expenditure. God’s workshop is nonexistence, so everything outside the workshop is worthless.

What do I know if I exist or not? But this much I do know, oh Beloved: When I exist I am nonexistent, and when I am nonexistent I exist!

Were your body’s existence to be naughted, then your soul would be exalted—after naughting is complete, you will be in but God’s Oneness.

For a lifetime you have made trial of your own existence. Once you must try out nonexistence!

The beloved said, “You have done all these things, but open your ears wide and listen well: You have not accomplished the root of the root of love and devotion—what you have done is the branches.” The lover said, “Tell me, what is that root.” She said, “To die and become nonexistent.”

Therefore be bewildered and distraught, nothing less, so that God’s help may come to you from before and behind. Once you have become bewildered, dizzy, and annihilated, then your spiritual state will say, “Lead us on the Straight Path!”

In this path, anything other than confusion and madness is distance and alienation from God.

Oh God, show to the spirit that station where speech grows up without words, so the pure spirit may fly toward the wide expanse of Nonexistence—an expanse exceedingly open and spacious, from which this imagination and existence find nourishment.

Images are narrower than Nonexistence—therefore imagination is the cause of heartache. Existence is still narrower than imagination—therefore within it full moons become crescents. The existence of the world of sense perception and colors is still narrower, for it is a cramped prison.

The cause of narrowness is composition and multiplicity, and the senses drag toward composition. Know that the World of Unity lies in the other direction from the senses. If you want Oneness, go in that direction! -- Rumi

That's a lot of Non-existance talk from Rumi!

Oh my, that's a lot of word salad. I feel like I'm choking on it. His usage of the word non-existence is just ridiculous. My advice would be to get yourself another teaching. 

[Nahm]

Relativity, the double slit, Schrödinger’s cat / uncertainty principle, and quantum erasure are helpful facets for loosening up dualities like experience / experiencer, finite / infinite, alive / dead, etc. Just a way to go about it. 

[blazed]

29 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Oh my, that's a lot of word salad. I feel like I'm choking on it. His usage of the word non-existence is just ridiculous. My advice would be to get yourself another teaching. 

lol? you do realise even leo has a quote from rumi in his signature.

 

 

[Ananta]

12 minutes ago, blazed said:

lol? you do realise even leo has a quote from rumi in his signature.

 

 

Well, hopefully no offense will be taken by this, but Leo is not my teacher (to me, he's just the guy that runs this website), so if he'd like a quote on his signature from this word salad guy, then I'd say, it's really not my business.

But, in this thread Leo said to you, "There is no such thing as non-existence, only existence. Non-existence is a concept existing in your mind."

So, if you think of Leo as your teacher (or one of your teachers), then he's telling you he doesn't agree with what Rumi is saying about non-existence , right? 

[Ananta]

20 minutes ago, Etagnwo said:

This is why people are so confused and mystified with this subject. 

Ridiculous 

Yes, I know! It's sad really. I recall all the crazy crap I thought years ago from listening to the wrong people. It can have you chasing your tail for a very long time. I'm glad that's over. 

 

[blazed]

25 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Well, hopefully no offense will be taken by this, but Leo is not my teacher (to me, he's just the guy that runs this website), so if he'd like a quote on his signature from this word salad guy, then I'd say, it's really not my business.

But, in this thread Leo said to you, "There is no such thing as non-existence, only existence. Non-existence is a concept existing in your mind."

So, if you think of Leo as your teacher (or one of your teachers), then he's telling you he doesn't agree with what Rumi is saying about non-existence , right? 

if you dont like it then fair enough you don't need to come telling me this guy is a salad guy and how i need to find a better teaching.

Not sure why you felt the need to share that.

Clearly you're here to socialise seeing as leo is not your teacher and "some guy who runs this website" and dont like complicated reads?

what you dont like your friends on facebook or something?

I listen to Leo as a teacher, and I listen to many others sources, doesn't mean i agree with him on everything, for example I disagree with him on this, to me nothingness is identical to non-existence, the absence of everything, if nothingness is an existent thing then you would be able to prove it, it wouldn't be this intangible, invisible, inconceivable thing which is basically describing non-existence, nothingness is beyond everything.

Edited June 1, 2018 by blazed

[blazed]

And i already said that considering existent and non existent during self enquiry has helped me a lot in a break through, I found intensely questioning and doubting existence to be a powerful tool, not sure why you would tell me to drop something that has worked well for me lol.

[Saumaya]

@blazed Non existence means that the dream is not real or things in it arent. Thats it.