Truth doesn't exist, here's how!

[MarkusSweden]

WARNING: DON'T READ THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE NOT 100% MENTALLY STABLE

First of all, the only thing we ever come in contact with is experience. 

All there is to life/reality is 'experience' 

Without experience there is literary nothing. 

You never come in contact with anything other then experiences. 

And what can we say about experience? It has to have an experiencer to whom the experience happen.

There is no such thing as experience without an 'experiencer' 

And what can we say about an experiencer? It must find itself in duality.

Even if 'you' transcend your 'ego' and feel that you are everything, you still operate in a subject-object reality, otherwise experience is impossible, the differentiation between experience and experiencer is duality 

And as you know, duality is false. Absolute truth is non-dual. 

Therefore absolute truth can't be experienced. 

Absolute truth is like a black spot, a black hole, to speak metaphorically. 

You can come close to truth, but you can't be it. 

To reach it or to "experience" it, you must cease to exist, you must cease to experience, therefore it's fair to say that absolute truth doesn't exist at all.

Because the statement "To experience absolute truth you must cease to experience"  is a CONTRADICTION!  

Reality consists only of different degrees of lies, that's all there is to reality.  

Be careful with psychedelics if you're not ready to lose all truth in the world(your illusion that truth exist that is)  

Experience and the experiencer can meet each other and become one(oneness/truth) in that black spot(where experience cease to be). And that black spot doesn't exist. You see the mindfuck? 

It's infinitely sad in a way! An endless trap! 

We're locked into hell(absence of truth) for eternity, God or heaven refers to illusions that suggest otherwise. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[DoubleYou]

41 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

And what can we say about experience? It has to have an experiencer to whom the experience happen.

Why?

 

[InfinitePotential]

58 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

To reach it or to "experience" it, you must cease to exist, you must cease to experience, therefore it's fair to say that absolute truth doesn't exist at all.

Or, maybe Absolute Truth transcends existence and/or nonexistence altogether. To say it exists or to say it does not exist is not quite right. It is beyond all concepts including this one.

Agreed that "you", @MarkusSweden can't experience it, but "You" The One can be it. You are it.

Or, you're so infinitely powerful that you can seemingly not be it as well. How fun!

[MarkusSweden]

42 minutes ago, DoubleYou said:

Why?

 

Can an eye see itself? 

If absolute truth is nothing but one big eye(metaphor for non duality), you must cease to see in order to 'see' the truth, because there is nothing outside the eye to see, the eye is everything that is, hence a contradiction if you like to 'see' the truth. 

Silly metaphor because you can't compare experiencing with seeing, seeing is just a subset within the range of experience. But it gives you a clue that you must cease to experience in order to experience truth. 

Truth is a black hole, that doesn't exist. All there is, are derivatives of the truth(illusion/lies that is). And you can't even say that all there is, are derivatives of truth since truth actually doesn't exist, is nothing.   

Edited May 31, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Ether]

Another argument, here we go again. Shoutout to @Rilles

[Rilles]

@EtherI dont see any arguing yet, lets keep our biases holstered 

[Ether]

5 minutes ago, Rilles said:

@EtherI dont see any arguing yet, lets keep our biases holstered 

Holster, magnun, poster, foster, home, where i host-er. my chauffer

 

VARS

[MarkusSweden]

11 minutes ago, Outer said:

In the mirror?

Look at my edited post above where I mentioned the 'eye'

Edited May 31, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Preetom]

Just now, MarkusSweden said:

We're locked into hell(absence of truth) for eternity, God or heaven refers to illusions that suggest otherwise. 

so that's your final analysis? If that statement is correct, it means that Truth exists.

Even if the statement ''There is no truth'' turns out to be correct, that means the statement is Truth, right? 

So Absolute Truth EXISTS. ITS ALL THE ONLY THING THAT EXISTS

[MarkusSweden]

1 minute ago, Preetom said:

so that's your final analysis? If that statement is correct, it means that Truth exists.

Even if the statement ''There is no truth'' turns out to be correct, that means the statement is Truth, right? 

 

Yeah, exactly!

'The truth is, there is no truth'

I guess you can call that statement true. (even though it's a semantic play/game) 

 

[Leo Gura]

@MarkusSweden You are just wrong. You're still trying to reason this out intellectually, and that will not work.

Stop theorizing and do the practices with an open mind. (Right now, your mind is not open.)

The situation is the exact opposite what you think: Truth is all there is. There is no such thing as non-Truth. Non-Truth does not exist.

The whole point of spiritual practice is that it IS possible to transcend experience. Experience is not all there is. Experience is a 2nd order phenomena. 1st order is BEING, which requires no experiencer. Experience is a dualistic notion, which is why it must be transcended.

At higher levels of consciousness, experience will become recontextualized into Absolute Being. Nothing visual will change. But a radical recontextualization will happen once the ego is seen to be non-existent. You will realize that what you used to call "experience" was really Absolute Being the whole time, you just weren't conscious of it because the ego was in the way.

[Eden]

Word. @Leo Gura

[Rilles]

@Ether dont get banned dude

[MiracleMan]

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

WARNING: DON'T READ THIS THREAD IF YOU ARE NOT 100% MENTALLY STABLE

First of all, the only thing we ever come in contact with is experience. 

All there is to life/reality is 'experience' 

Without experience there is literary nothing. 

You never come in contact with anything other then experiences. 

And what can we say about experience? It has to have an experiencer to whom the experience happen.

There is no such thing as experience without an 'experiencer' 

And what can we say about an experiencer? It must find itself in duality.

Even if 'you' transcend your 'ego' and feel that you are everything, you still operate in a subject-object reality, otherwise experience is impossible, the differentiation between experience and experiencer is duality 

And as you know, duality is false. Absolute truth is non-dual. 

Therefore absolute truth can't be experienced. 

Absolute truth is like a black spot, a black hole, to speak metaphorically. 

You can come close to truth, but you can't be it. 

To reach it or to "experience" it, you must cease to exist, you must cease to experience, therefore it's fair to say that absolute truth doesn't exist at all.

Because the statement "To experience absolute truth you must cease to experience"  is a CONTRADICTION!  

Reality consists only of different degrees of lies, that's all there is to reality.  

Be careful with psychedelics if you're not ready to lose all truth in the world(your illusion that truth exist that is)  

Experience and the experiencer can meet each other and become one(oneness/truth) in that black spot(where experience cease to be). And that black spot doesn't exist. You see the mindfuck? 

It's infinitely sad in a way! An endless trap! 

We're locked into hell(absence of truth) for eternity, God or heaven refers to illusions that suggest otherwise. 

Pure rubbish, most of it.  You've attempted to define the undefinable. 

To say Truth is non-dual is already saying too much.  Why do you think it's called non-duality, because it sounds cool?  It doesn't mean ONE, it means NOT TWO.  To say 'all is one' or reality is nondual is using language to define reality, and are clumsy or inadequate pointers at BEST.

[Ether]

@Rilles I was just rhyming, no offense tbh

[Rilles]

@Ether loose leaf dude, loose leaf

[Ether]

@Rilles loose leaf, i just ate beef, hambuger...beef, i love my...teeth...they wite as...shit...im high but i dont take a...hit...we in here...in actualized.org...we...LIT

[MarkusSweden]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@MarkusSweden You are just wrong. You're still trying to reason this out intellectually, and that will not work.

Stop theorizing and do the practices with an open mind. (Right now, your mind is not open.)

The situation is the exact opposite what you think: Truth is all there is. There is no such thing as non-Truth. Non-Truth does not exist.

Well, this come to me during a trip where I wasn't reasoning at all. It was even more horrific then what I can express in a thread, in fact, it was infinite horrific. 

It was very real.. that if we lose every life line(illusions that is) even for a short millisecond we will be locked up in hell for eternity, an infinite hell for eternity. 

Man, I will never go near psychedelics again. I have had beautiful experiences as well, precisely those you mention, that everything is true, that truth is everything that is, that was so beautiful, so much love and peace to it. 

But! That VERY positive experience of resting with God in total bliss wasn't ANYWHERE near the horrific experience I had, that triumph the good experience by infinity. 

Being God was infinite love, it was too much of positive emotion, yet it can't even be measured compare to the horrific one. If God was infinite, hell was infinite raised to the power of infinity, infinite number of times(to use your metaphor) 

You see what I'm saying? 

Edited May 31, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[InfinitePotential]

2 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Well, this come to me during a trip where I wasn't reasoning at all. It was even more horrific then what I can express in a thread, in fact, it was infinite horrific. 

It was very real.. that if we lose every life line(illusions that is) even for a short millisecond we will be locked up in hell for eternity, an infinite hell for eternity. 

Man, I will never go near psychedelics again. I have had beautiful experiences as well, precisely those you mention, that everything is true, that truth is everything that is, that was so beautiful, so much love and peace to it. 

But! That VERY positive experience of resting with God in total bliss wasn't ANYWHERE near the horrific experience I had, that triumph the good experience by infinity. 

Being God was infinite love, it was too much of positive emotion, yet it can't even be measured compare to the horrific one. If God was infinite, hell was infinite raised to the power of infinite, infinite of times(to use your metaphor) 

You see what I'm saying? 

I had a very similar experience, there was nothing, no illusion to hold onto, everything was seen to be purely illusory. It was much like a lucid dream.

I judged it as very scary at the time, but looking back, had I let go even further, I'm sure it would have been infinitely more... agreeable.

[blazed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Experience is not all there is. Experience is a 2nd order phenomena. 1st order is BEING, which requires no experiencer. Experience is a dualistic notion, which is why it must be transcended.

 

It didn't go so well with me when I said pretty much the same thing on here lol.

Leo, its sort of a tricky question to put into words and kind of pointless, but would like to hear your opinion on it to expand on perspectives.

Would you say existence and non-existence is the same thing? That this is the nothingness and we are in it. That consciousness and nothingness is the same, to put it into words consciousness arises from nothingness.

The mind structured and organize the unreal to seem real. Tried to make sense, and in return created a powerful illusion.

I was lucky enough to have two very powerful experiences of noself this month, I was really trying to focus and feel into what existence and non-existence is, and the body ceased to exist, it just melted away everything melted away but it didn't feel like sleep, it felt like a very powerful energy that i labelled as "pure consciousness", I saw this as to be truth, the face that I was before before my biological body was born.

At the time it didn't feel like an experience but seeing as I am talking about the past now i must refer to it as an experience, actually it was more like a cease of everything, a cease of experience, yet so much aliveness and energy.

My goal now is to integrate this to more day to day activity, because its so easy to fall back into identifying with the ego. It's so hard to be on point all the time.

Edited May 31, 2018 by blazed