Self deception

[Nahm]

[Faceless]

@Nahm

Thank us

[Telepresent]

17 minutes ago, Faceless said:

That’s because the self’s very function is to maintain permanence. 

I haven't yet found that for myself (please understand I'm not calling you wrong, I'm describing my progress!)  Is this something you've found for yourself?  Because I've heard it said a fair bit, and certainly I can recognise the self wanting to defend itself, or establish legacy, but

Oh. 

That's the point isn't it? In the knowledge of impermanence, trying to establish legacy to last beyond the physical life, remain in memory, and let's not think too much about the heat death of the universe because then meaninglessness really rears its head. Thank you

[B_Naz]

Self-deception is when you are yourself? Since there is no-self, just a ego thing? Everything to do with the self is self-deception.

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Telepresent said:

please understand I'm not calling you wrong, I'm describing my progress!

Oh no.. I didn’t think that one bit. 

I am following you 

I will get back to this in a bit. I must feed and get my baby boy ready for the day. 

[Telepresent]

You must feed... I must feed... we must feed...

 

[SoothedByRain]

I remember you said somewhere that you never watched any of Leo's videos so I thought I'd chuck you a link to this one

 

[InfinitePotential]

Anyone who is skeptical of this whole self-deception business should realize we all do it most every night when we dream... We have the most ludicrous dreams where our minds create the most bizarre scenarios that we take completely for granted and treat as normal and real when dreaming. For example, we might start talking out of our butts in a dream and find that to be perfectly normal and unremarkable like we're Ace Ventura Pet Detective or something.

So the mechanism is clearly there for the mind to deceive itself into believing things are there that aren't, and that reality is a certain way that it isn't (or is it?). Makes you wonder if there's not things we constantly take for granted and treat as normal and unremarkable in the waking state, such as the entirety of existence and being itself.... Like wtf are these colors all around us? Oh but it's perfectly normal that we're meat bags stuck to a rock moving however many miles a second around a giant ball of fire nothing unusual about that. Oh and I'm currently existing rn don't really remember when that started or know how it happened but here I am, nbd.

[Faceless]

23 minutes ago, SoothedByRain said:

I remember you said somewhere that you never watched any of Leo's videos so I thought I'd chuck you a link to this one

 

Cool. What have you taken away from that video? 

Anything you see as significant that can be shared here for others? 

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Telepresent said:

Is this something you've found for yourself

Yes. Through self reflection in the understanding of nature of thought/self. 

 

 

Thought/self “the old” is the result and response to memory. If that memory being “static” is not carried over to the “dynamic now/the new” there is no movement “self/thought”...That is what is refered to as centerlessness. 

 

So If the movement of thought is in motion each “new/dynamic“ experiencing gets covered by that of the past “knowledge, past experiences, through memory. This is the field of time. 

 

This is the barreir to the timeless. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Spinoza]

My conclusion after seeing leo videos about self deception (part 1,2,3)

Everything is self deception, being alive is a self deception

So it's something we can't totally avoid, so we need to expect that this is a never ending challenge

We say man can never knows, and we are talking about what we know as truth, even the word truth is a mind conception

[Faceless]

21 minutes ago, Spinoza said:

Everything is self deception, being alive is a self deception

 

Yes all things are not truth. But there is the real and the unreal. We are talking of the unreal. I am more interested in the much more subtle forms of self deception. 

Like how we escape our problems to such an idea “illusion” that everything is self deception. Do you see where I’m getting at. There are much more sublte and disguised forms of self deception within the structure of thought. 

This can be seen with exploration of the self. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Before there can be any investigation about the real, the nature of the unreal must be explored very very deeply. Otherwise the real and the unreal gets muddled together and is taken as all together real or even taken as TRUTH. 

We cant explore the real until we understand the mechanism that explores, THOUGHT. Which means the unreal must be totally understood in its nature and how it moves. To understand it’s driving force. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

I think most of the reason why people do not turn inward is because most of the society(parents, teachers, friends etc) pushes you towards societal success. There is very rare talk of turning inward. Even when people try to explore themselves, they get stuck at rudimentary self help. A developed society is infinite palace of distraction from exploring the true nature of oneself. Self deception is bound to happen, after all everyone is pursuing societal success, why shouldn't I. Some try to neurotically pursue it or some try to have 'fun' while escaping it. The reinforcement from society about how good you are doing in the world or how bad you are doing is the biggest proponent of self deception.

Nobody tells you to find your true nature first and then you can do whatever you want. People live a life of quiet desperation and die, never fully exploring themselves.

[Faceless]

Indeed

 

7 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Some try to neurotically pursue it or some try to have 'fun' while escaping it

Good call

The never ending movement of desire. Thought/selfs constant compulsion to seek psychological security. Thought corrupts its own movement and causes disfuction by its desire to change what it to what is wants to maintain permanence. Thought distorts its own movement. 

What you said is a big problem in society and the world. 

People can not think for themselves because they do not understand themselves. 

Every movement in this direction leads to contradiction. Because desire implies the subject is seperate from the object. This leads to inevitable self deception right from the beginning. 

Thanks for bringing light to this@Saumaya . It needs to be brought up more often. ??

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

7 minutes ago, Faceless said:

The never ending movement of desire. Thought/selfs constant compulsion to seek psychological security. Thought corrupts its own movement and causes disfuction by its desire to change what it to what is wants to maintain permanence. Thought distorts its own movement. 

What you said is a big problem in society and the world. 

People can not think for themselves because they do not understand themselves. 

Every movement in this direction leads to contradiction. Because desire implies the subject is seperate from the object. This leads to inevitable self deception right from the beginning. 

 

Yes

Honestly I think most people are just trying to survive, those who try to impact the world only do so using philanthropy. Very less people think about enlightenment let alone being enlightened. As far as being a conscious being is concerned, most people are guided by the blind. The blind leading the blind.

One of the biggest things I have recently noticed in people is trying to defend and protect themselves using subtle form of vengeance. Its like acting in reaction to the thing being said. 

Feeling betrayed is also very common. If someone you put your faith in does something you don't like, you feel like you have been betrayed.

[Faceless]

22 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

One of the biggest things I have recently noticed in people is trying to defend and protect themselves using subtle form of vengeance. Its like acting in reaction to the thing being said. 

Yes. Psychological security. Where there is pain, fear, comes the reaction antagonism/violence, and so on. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Feeling betrayed is also very common. If someone you put your faith in does something you don't like, you feel like you have been betrayed.

Indeed, holding on to an image of the past which is where thought manifests. That image is carried with one to meet the present moment. This causes conflict and perpetuates social division. As well as feeds the illusion “duality/division” between the thinker and what is thought.

I know you are already aware of this @Saumaya but for others reading this....

THOUGHT is the response to the dynamic now, with that which is past knowledge, experience, by recollection/memory which is static. 

Here is a quote that really expresses awareness in this fact. 

 

 

To maintain freedom from identity/thought/experience.....

“It has been said that the highest wisdom lies in detachment, or, in the words of Chung-Tzu, ‘The perfect man employs his mind as a mirror; it grasps nothing; it refuses nothing; it receives, but does not keep.’

Detachment means to have neither regrets for the past nor fears for the future; to let life take its course without attempting to interfere with its movement and change, neither trying to prolong the stay of something pleasant nor to hasten the departure of things unpleasant. To do this is to move in time with life, to be in perfect accord with its changing music.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

9 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Detachment means to have neither regrets for the past nor fears for the future; to let life take its course without attempting to interfere with its movement and change, neither trying to prolong the stay of something pleasant nor to hasten the departure of things unpleasant. To do this is to move in time with life, to be in perfect accord with its changing music.

Wonderful, can I use this in my book by your permission?

[Faceless]

Just now, Saumaya said:

Wonderful, can I use this in my book by your permission?

I didn’t right that. But I don’t think Chung-Tzu would mind though..lol 

Use everything you can my friend.

Responsiblity in expressing these important messages needs no permission. We are contributing to the stream of consciousness. 

Anything of such quality should never be left out. I don’t care if it’s been said or not. Obviously this needs to be shared still right? 

 Go for it. The more wisdom the better life will be for all. 

[Saumaya]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

I didn’t right that. But I don’t think Chung-Tzu would mind though..lol 

Use everything you can my friend.

Responsiblity in expressing these important messages needs no permission. We are contributing to the stream of consciousness. 

Anything of such quality should never be left out. I don’t care if it’s been said or not. Obviously this needs to be shared still right? 

 Go for it. The more wisdom the better life will be for all. 

Well said, Thanks