...."enlighten[ment] - The Exact Step By Step Process"...

[cnorhistorian]

Quote from Leo

I have two apologies to make. I am not one to deny being wrong.

I commented on Leo's  concept without taking the time to study and understand it.

It has been a long time since I have tried to express my position to an "outside" audience and my first attempt was clumsy. I don't know this will be much better.

Leo has won a convert - of sorts

I think many of his insights are "spot on"

I addressed the ultimate question of what we can be certain of in 1965.

And I came to Descartes "cogito ergo sum" or the original French "je pense donc je suis". I think therefore I am.

The only thing I can be completely sure of is that I exist. Because I think. Or more properly because I am aware.

I can accept Leo's position that the perceiver does not exist separate from the perception and that self identity does not exist separate from the perception either.

And that the perception itself is a kind of absolute truth.

But I don't think that perceiving this is the "ultimate" purpose of life. I don't think that it is even necessary to have this perception to be enlightened.

We have the capacity to be aware of being aware. We have a mind - the ability to think. Just because it is cluttered up with all sorts   of learned garbage doesn't mean that the mind is useless.

It is important to understand that the mind is not a material thing like the body - it is not composed of neutrons and electrons - and the mind is not the brain either. Neither is it located in the brain.

The only useful conclusion we can come to is that this perception is - or is a product of - our spirit.

And we are not a body having a spirit, we are a spirit having a body.

All fields of knowledge tend to interpret  life reality as being material. That includes religion.

Religious truth is meant to be symbolic because it expresses a reality that is not physical and hence beyond most people's experience. Religious truth is expressed in what Christians would call parables or Leo would call stories. Because spiritual reality  cannot be expressed in material terms except symbolically. 

However the followers and this includes the leaders of religion  keep converting it to a physical level.  They interpret literally what is meant to be symbolic. 

My finding in studying world religions is that they are all the same. They remember the messenger and forget or misinterpret the message.

So I am spiritual but not religious. I have been to the spirit world. Leo might call that a story and scientists might call it chemicals in my brain. They are entitled to their opinions.

I am not going to try to explain my 55 year journey to my concept of enlightenment here but my perception of the purpose of life is that this world is a school for souls. We are here to learn a lesson, to find our "true" selves as it were.

And life is not deterministic. We do have free will although that free will is relative.

I state my position. I am willing to entertain alternate views but am unlikely to change my basis position. And no, with due respect I don't care if you think I am wrong. And if you have to tell me to "shut the fuck up" I think you are a long way from being enlightened .

I can see that in a deluded world there are many who can profit greatly from Leo's videos, courses and forum. I am not one of them. I am not thereby saying that I can't learn things here.

I have had a successful life defined in my own terms and I am at peace with myself and the world. I am not struggling with most of the issues on this forum.

i find this forum interesting but don't expect to spend much time here. I have a busy life.

[Electron]

Present moment=Everything=Nothing=Life=God=Universe=You 

[cnorhistorian]

This is supposed to be under "enlightenment- intro" but the system won't let me respond there.

Amplituda, Leo, Naviy, Galyna, Werlight, Costa

You understand the views expressed here are my own.

"....they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly - their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth...unless and until [they] cease to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for ...true understanding...The Book of Certitude

The process described here does not involve the denial of thought and emotion, integral parts of our makeup, it involves detaching our thoughts and emotions from any learned knowledge or passion (or "story" as Leo would put it ) positive or negative.

It does mean getting yourself out of your "head" and "heart"  and become aware of being aware. This process is not enlightenment, it is the first step to enlightenment.

Once we have cleansed our mind and heart from vain imaginings and feelings it is necessary to use them again from a perspective of "other worldly" understanding.

These faculties are an integral part of us; they are part of being human.

The thread here seems to miss this. It is all hung up on achieving this detachment and seems to have no concept that this is only a first step and, while it is important of itself and, indeed, necessary, it  the understanding of ourselves and the world that we achieve through this that is important.  Through this understanding we are able to achieve clarity and peace of mind and are able to make a positive contribution to the world instead of being just another leech on society.

And if  you have to use strong language and swear words (which is all the rage these days)  you are not free of passion and you are a long way from this first step to enlightenment. I have expressed this concept before.

So many of the posts on this site show anger and frustration which reflects the anger and frustration in the world  especially in western society.

My saying is that "democracy" is just voluntary slavery as long as you let yourself be deluded by the multinationals and their hype.

Deluding people and fleecing them is remarkably easy. Don't try to do it through reason, all you need is the direct path to their hidden fears.

The process that Leo describes I achieved long ago, December 1966, I remember it clearly.

With due respect I am way beyond that now

 

 

[Guest]

On 10.3.2016 at 0:17 PM, cnorhistorian said:

 

I have had a successful life defined in my own terms and I am at peace with myself and the world. I am not struggling with most of the issues on this forum.

i find this forum interesting but don't expect to spend much time here. I have a busy life.

No way you have a life unlike the other people who dwell on this forum 24/7? No way in hell... and even more crazy, you are saying you are not a complete victim struggling with totally bullshit, petty shallow problems like a lot of people here and also are not caugh up in mental masturbation and silly dogmas? What are you doing here? This place is clearly not for you, deluded individual, who thinks he/she is better than me, I who spend 24/7 on this forum and creates threads a la "solve this pathetic problem for me please".

Okay now I don't know what my text is actually about...I guess it's supposed to critique this place and maybe also you...I don't know. You read it anyway, you decide! Have a nice day.

[kalter000]

@The Son You seem so angsty, are you okay?

[cnorhistorian]

Did I say anyplace that I am better than anyone else?

Did I say I know everything and have nothing left to learn?

Have I not repeated used the words "with due respect" ?

I have achieved peace of mind and self actualization in my own terms but it has been a hard road.

 

 

[Codrago]

1 hour ago, cnorhistorian said:

And if  you have to use strong language and swear words (which is all the rage these days)  you are not free of passion and you are a long way from this first step to enlightenment. I have expressed this concept before.

When I first heard Leo swear and his style of speaking I was like the same, but the only reason for that and most of the videos he creates is to draw people attention to such existential questions. 

And how do you think how would average man react to a softy pony tale kind of speaking? It would sound like something religious, dogmatic - therefor boring and not worth to listen to. Average man seeks for entertainment, fun and excitement. And swearing keeps attracted people and does its job very well. Then maybe something will trigger them to seek more advanced information on ones existence. And btw how can you say that anything is "wrong"? It is as it is. 

So what Leo provides isn't the most advanced guide for enlightenment as he himself is still a student (I don't know if Leo is enlightened  ) , but he certainly would draw a lot of people attention to it and make them desire to dig deeper as it did for me.  Without his videos and this forum i wouldn't meet even greater teachers Eckhart Tolle, Papaji and OSHO 

This thread might miss a lot but if it exists then someone needs it (actually you can get quite a lot and deep insights here too) and it requires to finish last level before entering the next one, people are dealing with different kind of problems and no single video and no single book would make a switch from TV to enlightenment. It is as deep as it can be for such people understanding.

[Henri]

@cnorhistorian

So you are a follower of the Baha'i Faith, correct me if I am wrong?

 

[cnorhistorian]

Henri: I am not a follower of any particular religion.

Points for recognizing the source of the quote.

I started studying world religions on my own at 14 that was 1960. There is a lot of wisdom in all of them.

I have also studied many mystics. Kalil Gibran is one of my favourites.

I have been a follower of several independent religions or sects/denominations in the past.

My finding, which I have said here before is that the followers of all religions tend to remember the messenger and forget or misinterpret  the message. You can't capture the ocean in a cup. 

I see the social and spiritual function religions have fulfilled in the past and that they still fulfil.

It is one of Leo's paradoxes. The human race has the need to express spiritual truth in the form of social organizations, but the essence of the spirit world cannot be captured in a social or material sense.

 

[Henri]

@cnorhistorian I can agree with all of this. 

[cnorhistorian]

@The Son   Nowhere did I say that I think I am *better* than anyone else.

What I have said is that I am in a *very different place* than *most* participants on this site.

Most of the issues on this site are things I resolved *for myself* years ago.

I can identify because all those struggles I went through in my time.

I *do* have a *peace of mind* and *perspective on life* that I think is very *rare*.

That Leo and others on this site seem to think I don't does not bother me.

Most have a sort of peace of mind because they have never confronted the issues or even realized that issues exist. A few have come to the realization that there is something very wrong with the consumer society where the multinationals and governments perpetuate delusions and keep the people drugged via the media to their own ends. Often the first reaction is fear. Others have started to confront the issues and are angry and confused - the egos reaction as Leo would put it. 

When you get to the point where you are ready to confront all this you fall on your face, you pick yourself up and you fall on your face again.

It takes persistence. A lot of persistence. And to that I attribute my success. I am not smarter than others I just have an incredible amount of persistence.

Just because I have enlightenment in my own terms does not mean I do not have problems. I will not talk about them here because they are personal, I have a handle on them and nobody can help me with them anyway.

Why am I here?  Because I am on a journey. I do not know everything. In fact I have come to understand how little I know. 

*A lot*of the things Leo says are very insightful and *some* of the things posted on this site are viewpoints I had not considered before.

What can I contribute?  I think the main thing I can contribute - if anyone is willing to listen and believe me - is that the objectives of this site are not impossible.  I have done it *in my own terms*. You too can do it in your terms. It does not take any special ability except persistence and courage.

Hang in there.

I wont be around much longer.  I am on a sort of holiday right now in Brasil.  When I go back to work in Canada I will not have as much internet access and very little time anyway.

 

[Guest]

@cnorhistorian Don't worry I was just joking. In fact I understand and agree with you 100%

[werlight]

On March 10, 2016 at 5:17 AM, cnorhistorian said:

Quote from Leo

I have two apologies to make. I am not one to deny being wrong.

I commented on Leo's  concept without taking the time to study and understand it.

It has been a long time since I have tried to express my position to an "outside" audience and my first attempt was clumsy. I don't know this will be much better.

Leo has won a convert - of sorts

I think many of his insights are "spot on"

I addressed the ultimate question of what we can be certain of in 1965.

And I came to Descartes "cogito ergo sum" or the original French "je pense donc je suis". I think therefore I am.

The only thing I can be completely sure of is that I exist. Because I think. Or more properly because I am aware.

I can accept Leo's position that the perceiver does not exist separate from the perception and that self identity does not exist separate from the perception either.

And that the perception itself is a kind of absolute truth.

But I don't think that perceiving this is the "ultimate" purpose of life. I don't think that it is even necessary to have this perception to be enlightened.

We have the capacity to be aware of being aware. We have a mind - the ability to think. Just because it is cluttered up with all sorts   of learned garbage doesn't mean that the mind is useless.

It is important to understand that the mind is not a material thing like the body - it is not composed of neutrons and electrons - and the mind is not the brain either. Neither is it located in the brain.

The only useful conclusion we can come to is that this perception is - or is a product of - our spirit.

And we are not a body having a spirit, we are a spirit having a body.

All fields of knowledge tend to interpret  life reality as being material. That includes religion.

Religious truth is meant to be symbolic because it expresses a reality that is not physical and hence beyond most people's experience. Religious truth is expressed in what Christians would call parables or Leo would call stories. Because spiritual reality  cannot be expressed in material terms except symbolically. 

However the followers and this includes the leaders of religion  keep converting it to a physical level.  They interpret literally what is meant to be symbolic. 

My finding in studying world religions is that they are all the same. They remember the messenger and forget or misinterpret the message.

So I am spiritual but not religious. I have been to the spirit world. Leo might call that a story and scientists might call it chemicals in my brain. They are entitled to their opinions.

I am not going to try to explain my 55 year journey to my concept of enlightenment here but my perception of the purpose of life is that this world is a school for souls. We are here to learn a lesson, to find our "true" selves as it were.

And life is not deterministic. We do have free will although that free will is relative.

I state my position. I am willing to entertain alternate views but am unlikely to change my basis position. And no, with due respect I don't care if you think I am wrong. And if you have to tell me to "shut the fuck up" I think you are a long way from being enlightened .

I can see that in a deluded world there are many who can profit greatly from Leo's videos, courses and forum. I am not one of them. I am not thereby saying that I can't learn things here.

I have had a successful life defined in my own terms and I am at peace with myself and the world. I am not struggling with most of the issues on this forum.

i find this forum interesting but don't expect to spend much time here. I have a busy life.

@cnorhistorian Still waiting for the exact step by step process ! .. Would love to hear it !

[cnorhistorian]

@werlight  The exact step by step process is that there is no step by step process,  at least not a universal one.

I can't know what Leo's motivations are but I suspect his extreme claims are a marketing technique. Whether you are trying to sell something or give it away your first task is to get the attention of your target audience. In a world filled with extreme media hype that is very, very hard to do. Extreme claims and swear words are two techniques.  I will give Leo credit for going on to say forget the hype.

One way of looking at it is that I achieved "enlightenment"  in the space of a few minutes in December 1966.  Another way of looking at it is that I have spent a lifetime.

There are some basics. There is just two steps.

The first thing to realize is that the world picture presented by electronic media is crap, it is an illusion created for the purpose of keeping certain people in power and making money for the multinationals. 

They have defined the purpose of life. Their purpose of life is to consume. They mix up the possession of material goods with happiness.  They appeal to your inner desire for success by telling you that in order to be happy you have to have this house in suburbia, this car, this hot tub. People confuse convenience with happiness. So they sign on the dotted line and slave away making other people rich. That is why I say democracy is voluntary slavery. Money and the things it buys gives you conveniences. Conveniences are not happiness. In fact they tend to be the opposite.

It is surprisingly easy to manipulate the masses especially when you have electronic media at your disposal. You don't appeal to rationality, you appeal to deep seated instincts and emotions.

The human response was not designed for urbanized life. Urbanites have no connection to the planet they live on. Therefore you can convince them to buy and use products (like fossil fuels) that are destroying the planet. They have no concept that if you destroy the ecosystem you destroy the possibility of human life. The planet is not in immediate danger. From all we know it will be around for another 4.5 billion years. The only question is will the human race be along as passengers.

The human response is geared to tribal society in close touch with nature. Living in the moment was more common then than now.

You looked around your village and there was at least one thing you excelled in. Nobody compares with the air brushed media stars not even the stars themselves.

Nobody can achieve these impossible standards so it is necessary to live vicariously though the media.  When the sports hero scores a goal it is the man who is scoring the goal, when the heroine is seduced by the tall, dark stranger it is the woman who is being seduced.'

My advice is: get a life. The first step is to escape the delusional world of electronic media. The internet is full of extreme claims. Approach them with extreme caution.

The second step is to get in touch with yourself.  That should not be hard. You were there all along. However that will probably be hard to do because of all the garbage in your head and in your heart.

My method was to spend three months by myself in a cabin in northern Ontario twenty miles from the nearest inhabited building.  No central heat, no running water, no refrigerator, no electricity hence no radio or TV (the internet did not exist or was even thought of at that time).  Just me and my thoughts and perceptions. I have never needed any outside source of entertainment since. 

The method is very simple. You just have to go inside your head and heart and clean out all the garbage.

Just meditating for an hour a day may not do it. You probably need to  really get out of the world for a while. Three months (or two years)  may not be enough.