Releasing The Need For An External Fix?

[7thLetter]

Recently I've been playing a lot of video games because I see it as my source of 'fun' to fill in this empty gap in my life. Because at the moment, I'm just working a lot and not too much is going on in my life. A couple months back when I didn't work at all, I had my external situations handled, life was pretty fun. I was going out everyday approaching women in public, etc. And because of this, I took my personal development seriously so I was on track with all my habits. But today leads me to the question of how do we release the need for an external fix? I really feel that the video games are killing my willpower, so I'm somewhat falling off on my positive habits. Leo has his video on Fake Growth vs Real Growth, but I still don't fully understand the concept of doing inner work to release the need for these external fixes. It just seems very real to me at the moment that having these external fixes solves the problem. Do these external fixes at least create some sort of internal fix through what you are experiencing and how you think and feel about the experience?

[FindingPeace]

43 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

Do these external fixes at least create some sort of internal fix through what you are experiencing and how you think and feel about the experience?

Externals only cure the symptom and not the cause. All we do by creating external 'fixes' is create a comfortable environment that accomodates and appeases our inner weaknesses, insecurities, fears, whatever they are. It is those that really need fixing. Why? because if you only accomodate the inner issues by using external fixes then you have to live life maintaining these external fixes, forever. You spend your whole life effectively running and hiding from the root causes of the bahviours. You may think that this is ok as it makes you 'feel' better, but in the long term it doesn't. If video games fill a whole in your life then you will have to spend your life finding bigger and better video games to fill that hole, because ultimately you will either finish a game or get bored with it. You  have to find ways to maintain that 'need'. And there is always the chance of losing that 'fix' even if for a day or two. Then what do you do? Feel empty again.

External fixes are just that - short term fixes. Like drugs or alcohol, or sex. Feels good whilst the effects last, then feels empty once it wears off. This isn't fixing anything, just feeding in to the underlying cause.

The real growth comes from identifying why you have these 'holes' or needs and find out how to fix them at source. Then you are no longer dependent on the externals and don't have to spend your life chasing and maintaing sources of the externals.

Here's another way to look at it. For as long as you have these inner holes, needs, insecurities, then they will control you. You are not living an authentic life, you are being controlled by inner weaknesses. Fix the inner issues and you then control your life and can do so more objectively and fulfillingly.

So how do you release the need for an external fix? Introspection to find out what is pushing you to need that fix. Get to the root of it. If you need videos games because you feel empty, then you need to discover why you feel empty. What is lacking? Maybe there isn't a hole at all but you feel that by not doing something that it is somehow representative of something 'missing'. Are you not comfortable with your own company or just doing 'nothing'. What other healthy activities could you pursue instead? I don't know. But this is where the work needs doing.

You need to learn to become satisfied and at peace with yourself without the need for anything external. Easier said than done and not something I can tell you how to do. I have done this myself mainly by adopting the reframe of my mindset and reminding myself to accept that I don't need the external things. Comming to an acceptance.

[Bombardini]

25 minutes ago, FindingPeace said:

Great post!

I've been trying to do introspection myself but it's not easy. The specific problem I'm having is that I get the feeling that I "need" a certain girl. For love, appreciation and sex. Even though I know logically that my happieness doesn't depend on these things, the feeling of needing is very much real. 

The questions I've been asking myself is basically like: Why do I feel i need these things? But I'm drawing a blank on the answer. It doesn't seem to be in me. It's so frustrating because I don't want to feel this need any longer. It's affecting my behaviour and furthermore making our relationship less than it could be.

Am I asking the wrong questions? Should I come at the problem from a different angle? Or just keep at it?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciatet!

Thank you all!

 

[Guest]

@Emilio

http://selfleadership.org/evidence-based-practice.html

Edited March 10, 2016 by Nomad

[FindingPeace]

10 minutes ago, Emilio said:

The specific problem I'm having is that I get the feeling that I "need" a certain girl. For love, appreciation and sex.

A good way to get to the roots of things is to imagine not having them. Or if you don't already then even better. Write down what you are feeling, what seems to be missing. What you expect from that thing you are missing.

I would also introspect on what you think 'love' is. What do you expect from it? What does it mean to you? What are you feeling when you don't have it. Usually it comes down to validation and perhaps gaining self worth. How do you feel about yourself as a person? Are you confident and self-sufficient or are you needy? The need for appreciation is in here somewhere to.

A lot of it comes down to expectations you have and believe this external thing will give you. Except that in reality there is no guarantee that something will meet your expectations. Especially with relationships. This is the root cause of so many dysfunctional relationships. You may have a vision of how it will be and how it will serve you but the reality could be greatly different. Greatly dissapointing even.

You need to shed the expectations and the need to have things a certain way. By having a 'need' you can only be dissapointed when that need isn't met. You spend your life pushing for the need to be met and when that need involves another person, controlling that person to provide that need.

20 minutes ago, Emilio said:

Why do I feel i need these things? But I'm drawing a blank on the answer.

The answers are usually there right in front of you. Like I said above, when you don't have something you feel the 'need' to go after it. So the cause of the action is right there under your nose. You need to ask questions then question the answers until you dig right down to the bottom of it.

[Bombardini]

@FindingPeace Thank you very much! I will implement this mindset and see if I come up with anything. As you mention it most likely has to do with validation and self worth. My confidence could be alot better. Im curious however, does simply beeing aware of the actual root casue, make the need go away?

[FindingPeace]

41 minutes ago, Emilio said:

Im curious however, does simply beeing aware of the actual root casue, make the need go away?

Not exactly. Simply being aware of these things does make some difference because it will change the way to look at things and also the thoughts and actions you take. But to make a need go away you have to actually do work on that area of your life. So if you identify that you have a low self-worth, for example, then just being aware of that might remind you why you are feeling a certain way about someone or something and perhaps you can take more objective action.

But it won't fix the problem. In this example to fix the problem would require action in other areas of your life. To improve self-worth you would need to look at why you are lacking it - do you take other people's opinions, or behaviour towards you as a source of validation and if so then you would need to become independent of that source of validation. Learn to self-validate. Learn how to see value in yourself without the need for external validation or approval.

But finding the root causes is the starting point. Then you can start working on ways to repair the issues. That's the next step. You can also learn to become more comfortable facing your insecurites by not accomodating them. It's much like facing fears. Runnning from them won't help so learning to face up to them is the only way to overcome them. Learn to take control over them and not let them control you. This is useful whilst you discover how to fix them, which could take some time.

Edited March 10, 2016 by FindingPeace

[Guest]

Needs dont go away. Trying to get rid of a need is like trying to get rid of a limb. 

What is possible is understanding the energetic component that's split off will reduce the neediness to a manageable level. 

The root cause you will be able to understand if you follow the excersises in the above course. 

If you need I can point you towards research that proves how the brain develops from birth and how the external environment impacts children's brains for the rest of the natural life span. External environment will mean even how out mothers reacted to us at our pre- verbal stage would have caused psychic pain that we couldn't deal with at the ttime so had to split off in order to hide the pain. 

If you do parts work you can get in touch with these lost energies and harmonise them to help you in life instead of controlling you.

If you have any questions I'm here to help

 

[FindingPeace]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Needs dont go away

I disagree with this.

I can vouch from experience that needs can indeed be completely elimitated.

Yes, sometimes there are things that may never truly go, but it is possible to learn how to either fulfil a need yourself without the external fix, or understand that what you think you need, you actually don't. This is what inner-work is about.

It's really about identifying what are genuine needs (safety, sustainance, shelter for example) and what are not (hedonic pursuits, validation, approval, material aquisitions etc).

 

 

[Guest]

@FindingPeace Youre welcome to your opinion. 

I'll post the links to the evidence later when I'm home.

Thank you for your contribution

[Guest]

@FindingPeace @Nomad

Finding Peace, 

Some research (I like to provide research to back up my observations)

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/pdf_files/feelings_needs.pdf

https://www.cnvc.org/about-us/projects/nvc-research

What you describe as needs "material acquisition" "hedonistic pursuits" are not needs, they are strategies for getting needs met.  

Validation and approval are certainly healthy human needs according to both Rosenberg and Maslow

http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

 

Evidence that unmet childhood needs are the main cause of violence, abuse and addiction.  I would add that on the less extreme end of the spectrum are low self worth and neediness which are symptoms of unmet needs of acceptance, approval, belonging.

I am interested in any evidence you could provide

A) A copy of the method you use to eliminate needs.  Some links to the resources you have used.

B) Information that all human needs except the base physiological needs of safety, food and shelter can be "eliminated"

 

5 hours ago, FindingPeace said:

I disagree with this.

I can vouch from experience that needs can indeed be completely elimitated.

Yes, sometimes there are things that may never truly go, but it is possible to learn how to either fulfil a need yourself without the external fix, or understand that what you think you need, you actually don't. This is what inner-work is about.

It's really about identifying what are genuine needs (safety, sustainance, shelter for example) and what are not (hedonic pursuits, validation, approval, material aquisitions etc).

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2016 by Nomad

[FindingPeace]

@Nomad

I was in two minds whether to respond.

Quote

Validation and approval are certainly healthy human needs

Assuming this is true, which isn't unreasonable, there is an important thing to understand that is at the root of what I was trying to say.

There are two ways of fulfilling those needs: by becomming dependent on external sources to do so, or by doing so internally. It is possible to self-validate and self-approve which is a far better mindset to come at life from and alleviates the dependence on external sources that are inherently unreliable and require constant maintainance.

 

17 hours ago, Nomad said:

I am interested in any evidence you could provide

A) A copy of the method you use to eliminate needs.  Some links to the resources you have used.

B) Information that all human needs except the base physiological needs of safety, food and shelter can be "eliminated"

Let's not turn this thread in to an ego battle. I appreciate that you have a different viewpoint to me.

I don't need to prove or explain myself or in any way try to convince you, or anyone, of my own opinion. My opinion comes from my own direct experience. I'm not concerned about convincing others that it is in any way a 'truth'.

A couple of people posted on this thread with real world problems asking for advice. I responded with insight that I have gained from my own experience. It is up to others to use their own critical thinking to decide whether or not there is any use for that insight within the context of their own situations.

You hold an oposing opinion to my insights. That's ok. Perhaps you are genuinely interested in my 'evidence'. Maybe. But 37 years of personal life experience is hard to articulate on a forum thread. And in any case, it is subjective to my own perception. It may not be true for other people.

Forgive me for this attack but: perhaps you could reply more constructively to the original posts with advice from your own personally validated insight, instead of quoting references to external material that is not your own experience, and then using those references to invalidate someone else's personal and real-world experience.

One of the things that Leo advocates and encourages in his videos is not taking external studies and 'scientific' sources as truth, and to actually do the work ourselves and prove to ourselves what does and doesn't work and what is an isnt possible. This is my approach to life.

Edited March 11, 2016 by FindingPeace

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, FindingPeace said:

@Nomad

I was in two minds whether to respond.

Assuming this is true, which isn't unreasonable, there is an important thing to understand that is at the root of what I was trying to say.

There are two ways of fulfilling those needs: by becomming dependent on external sources to do so, or by doing so internally. It is possible to self-validate and self-approve which is a far better mindset to come at life from and alleviates the dependence on external sources that are inherently unreliable and require constant maintainance.

 

Let's not turn this thread in to an ego battle. I appreciate that you have a different viewpoint to me.

I don't need to prove or explain myself or in any way try to convince you, or anyone, of my own opinion. My opinion comes from my own direct experience. I'm not concerned about convincing others that it is in any way a 'truth'.

A couple of people posted on this thread with real world problems asking for advice. I responded with insight that I have gained from my own experience. It is up to others to use their own critical thinking to decide whether or not there is any use for that insight within the context of their own situations.

You hold an oposing opinion to my insights. That's ok. Perhaps you are genuinely interested in my 'evidence'. Maybe. But 37 years of personal life experience is hard to articulate on a forum thread. And in any case, it is subjective to my own perception. It may not be true for other people.

Forgive me for this attack but: perhaps you could reply more constructively to the original posts with advice from your own personally validated insight, instead of quoting references to external material that is not your own experience, and then using those references to invalidate someone else's personal and real-world experience.

One of the things that Leo advocates and encourages in his videos is not taking external studies and 'scientific' sources as truth, and to actually do the work ourselves and prove to ourselves what does and doesn't work and what is an isnt possible. This is my approach to life.

Hello again, 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I feel worried about this thread because I feel it's important to be able to back up the advice we're giving to people in order that we:

A) Don't influence others with our own self deception (I've never heard of eliminating needs, so I'm curious as to how that works)

B) Correct false assumptions about needs and provide accurate evidence based information - Internal Family Systems and NVC are tried and tested self actualisation models.  They are not "truth" they are accurate models to obtaining truth. 

C) Give others the tools to do the work for themselves rather than give them an interpretation of our tools.  It's great you have these tools, but if they are eliminating your needs then I am interested to see exactly how you are doing this, as I said earlier, needs are like body parts, they cannot be eliminated, and it's something I've never heard of

There must be a list of books and recommended reading you can provide us with so we can look at the materials ourselves and check out to see if they work for us?

No, this is correct, scientific truth isn't everything, but it's all we have got at the moment and is more reliable than possible dangerous personal anecdote and opinion - especially radical ideas like need elimination.  

If you could provide me with some information of your practices, share them with us I can check them out to see if they are safe to use.

Thanks

 

 

[dystopia]

This got heated lol calm down you guys. @Nomad  does have a point. Research and evidence do hold up better. That's the issue with learning from experience. Sometimes you are not aware of resources to back it up (if they even exist). However, with so much evidence to the contrary, I am interested to know how you came to the conclusion that some needs can be eliminated @FindingPeace  can you please explain why you're so sure? it's ok to be wrong & people are going to form their own conclusions anyways. 

[FindingPeace]

@shouldnt

37 minutes ago, shouldnt said:

I am interested to know how you came to the conclusion that some needs can be eliminated @FindingPeace  can you please explain why you're so sure? it's ok to be wrong & people are going to form their own conclusions anyways. 

In the interests of being openminded I need to take some time to give this some thought. It does ask some interesting questions and I am open to investigating them. I'll get back with my findings probably after the weekend.

A few thoughts have crossed my mind today whilst contemplating this: firstly, growing babies and children do indeed have certain needs that have to be met for healthy development. However it is the lack of these needs being properly met that leaves people with insecurities and perceived 'needs' later in life. Secondly, needs that have been met, in theory are no longer needs because they are satisfied. However they should be satisfied internally and not externally. Needs that are met early on in development should become internally managed later in life and hense less dependent on external sources.

I have two nagging thoughts: a satisfied need is no longer a need, and also many needs are perceived and illusory. Not all things we think we need, are actual needs. And many of them are a misdirection of a faulty belief system or value.

I'll give this further thought and try to dissasemble my own experiences. Perhaps I am deluding or BSing myself, perhaps not. I need to introspect on this.

Edit to add:

An analogy that just came to me that represents a non-genuine need:

Consider the child that is afraid of the dark and needs the landing light to be left on over night to comfort him. You could say that it is a need of his for that light to be left on. But it would be a false need. The root of the problem is the fear based on a falacy - that there is something to be afraid of in the dark. If, on the other hand, the child learns to face the fear and discovers that there is nothing to be afraid of in the dark, he would no longer require that light to be left on. The need would be eliminated.

This is the best example I can think of right now. In essence, this argument comes down to the distinction between genuine needs and perceived needs.

Edit to add:

Another thing I realise: there are many needs that we think we have that are greater in their expectation than they are in reality. When we eventually get that thing we think we need we discover that is doesn't meet the expectation or the need. We discover that the need wasn't really a need in the first place, it was more of a false expectation of something. Relationships often do this.

Edited March 11, 2016 by FindingPeace

[mtblife22]

At what point do we blur the line between a need and something that we are passionate about. Surely one could live in solitude, with all survival needs in place, and reach fulfillment. What if there is something that stokes the flame inside, that brings more life than being still. Is that pinnacle proving that being filled up by being completely content with stillness is not actually entirely met? Or is it possible that ones passion can bring more life than fulfillment in nothing. (Nothing meaning everything found within) 

[dystopia]

@mtblife22  passion comes from the need for fulfillment. It is not a need in itself. What's the specific need that brings about passion? To the thinking being it must come from a need to define their own existance & give them a sense of purpose. Is that need essential? I'm not sure. To the enlightened being, I imagine this need is filled by the realization that they simply exist for the sake of existance. 

It does seem like kind of an empty life. But I am not enlightened. I have plenty of holes to fill. Maybe that is what we are really seeking, after all. Nothing. We are lost in this plane. Searching for something but not knowing that our purpose is to returb to nothing. Only then can we feel complete. Ah, I'm getting really philosophical lol. 

[Guest]

On 3/10/2016 at 0:41 PM, Nomad said:

What is possible is understanding the energetic component that's split off will reduce the neediness to a manageable level. 

The root cause you will be able to understand if you follow the excersises in the above course. 

 

 

[dystopia]

@FindingPeace  I was going to upvote you but lol I just found out there's an upvote limit. 

I figured you would need some time to dissect everything. It's not always easy to explain stuff you seem to just know. Or yeah, it could have been a limiting belief you picked up at some point. 

If you could outline what needs are non-expendable (in case you find any) & why, that would be cool. I could try to think of some too hmm this is interesting. 

[Guest]

@shouldnt Thank you.  It seems I am learning a lot from you.  Leadership and influence.  I appreciate your input here