Why does the memory of realisations fade so completely?

[Nathan]

As if it never happend. The old paradigm comes back full swing. 

[Faceless]

How do you know it never left. 

The nature of illusion must be understood very deeply. There are very subtle forms of illusion. The greatest attribute of illusion is that we never see it is so. 

[Nathan]

I don't imagine anything's changed but sometimes it seems far less subtle. It's always a transient feeling though.  

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, Nathan said:

I don't imagine anything's changed but sometimes it seems far less subtle. It's always a transient feeling though.  

Illusion goes much deeper than imagining. It also has to do with escaping insecurity to become secure. Psychological time. 

Helps to inquire into the nature of fear and the compulsion to escape. This is approaching the dualistic movement that is in motion as self/thought. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Nathan]

Why do I grasp so much to hold onto a concept of time? Is there really that much insecurity in the abandonment of order as far as time is concerned? 

[Faceless]

3 hours ago, Nathan said:

Why do I grasp so much to hold onto a concept of time?

What I mean here is we constantly seek psychological security by ignoring, avoiding, creating an opposite to a problem. for example creating an opposite as in “I’m insecure I will believe in something that makes me feel secure.” “Or I will count on various meditation techniques, practices, methods, and in good time I may become secure.” In this case it’s using time “thought” as in I will become or stop being, or I will escape a fact “I’m stuck in the old paradigm” into the idea “ I have exited and ended that paradigm” but the illusion disguised itself being not an illusion. This is the subtle nature of thought/self. We all do and have gone through it my friend. 

But we can share with one another how to approach this rather common problem right.

DO YOU SEE? 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

23 minutes ago, Nathan said:

Is there really that much insecurity in the abandonment of order as far as time is concerned?

It’s actually an abandonment and evasion of disorder that leads to further disorder. 

We must face the disorder “illusion” 

Not escape it by calling it an illusion and that it's not real, which is still an illusion. Because you are evading what is so

Thought/the thinker moves in very subtle ways

Edited May 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Nathan]

36 minutes ago, Faceless said:

39 minutes ago, Faceless said:

In these case it’s using time “thought” as in I will becomes or stop being, or I will escape a fact “I’m stuck in the old paradigm” into the idea “ I have exited and ended that paradigm” but the illusion disguised itself being not an illusion. 

 

I guess my prior realisation could have been just as much a comforting thought-construct as my current model of understanding. But it felt less like a thought-story and more like a means of perception,not that I remember it at all, I guess it could have just been another thought-story dressed up in a subtle and unusual guise. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Nathan

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Nathan said:

I guess my prior realisation could have been just as much a comforting thought-construct as my current model of understanding. But it felt less like a thought-story and more like a means of perception,not that I remember it at all, I guess it could have just been another thought-story dressed up in a subtle an unusual guise. 

IDK but thats pretty common how you said you had it and lost it. When you really see and end the attachment and compulsion to escape the illusion there is no going back. Unless you start to evade/escape again of course. 

But if you really face ”totally” it won't come back. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Nathan]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

Why are you trying to remember realizations you've had? I suppose what you actually mean is keeping the realization.

I don't know, I guess I did attach some level of significance to it, I guess it would be spiritual ego. I remember acknowledging a lot of blatant synchronicity in life in general, I guess to acknowledge something as a synchronicity there has to be some kind of criteria present rooted in thought. It felt more intuitive than narrative but I guess intuition is just another facet of thought? 

[Nathan]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

But if you really face ”totally” it won't come back. 

It makes me wonder what kind of resistance caused me to evade so much last time. Whatever struck a nerve has been buried deep at this point, need to get back sooner later.

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, Nathan said:

It makes me wonder what kind of resistance caused me to evade so much last time. Whatever struck a nerve has been buried deep at this point, need to get back sooner later.

It's just fear and the mechanical ”habitual” compulsion to escape it. Pretty simple. We must face it. 

You do that and you will prevent decades of self-deception. You can do it. 

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

As if it never happend. The old paradigm comes back full swing. 

The tuning will be disturbed many times even though the first glimpse has happened.When you have had a first glimpse, trust arises. Do not stop there; do not get stuck looking for that same glimpse again and again. If you know a few moments of no-mind, those glimpses will promise you many more rewards that are going to come. 

Those who are in search will need infinite patience. If you have patience nothing else is needed. Patience means if it takes an eternity it is okay, I will not be disheartened.

[tsuki]

17 hours ago, Nathan said:

As if it never happend. The old paradigm comes back full swing. 

That is because you mistake realization for a 'new paradigm'.
Realization is a brief moment of clarity in which you are able to reinterpret your paradigm in a new, unconstrained way.
To keep hold of the new interpretation as a new paradigm to apply is a mistake.

The goal is to keep the possibility of unconstrained, applicable reinterpretation.
The new paradigm should be treated as a food for a new realization. Not as a result.
Ego is the constraint.

[krazzer]

17 hours ago, Nathan said:

As if it never happend. The old paradigm comes back full swing. 

Because of years and years of conditioning. You need time to integrate.

[Nahm]

@Nathan Like meditation and it’s spaciousness becomes the default, integration of real-i-zation too. You know what you’re doing. ?

[eputkonen]

19 hours ago, Nathan said:

As if it never happend. The old paradigm comes back full swing. 

What goes away was never yours to begin with.

Besides, realization is not about memory or thought...but deeper than that, understanding in one's being.

[Nahm]

@eputkonen ??

[Faceless]

8 hours ago, eputkonen said:

What goes away was never yours to begin with.

Besides, realization is not about memory or thought...but deeper than that, understanding in one's being.

Just to clarify

Memory and thought go together. Without memory there is no thought. 

 

If there is no understanding of thought, then how does one know when thought has exceeded its boundaries? 

If one wants to maintain awareness one has to be able to identify when and when not awareness is disguised as thought. Thought will be selective and bias to what it wants to be aware of. We have to know how to identify when thought is in movement. Otherwise thought will deceive itself. Every experience must be totally gone through  finished, and not carried over to the next onto the present. 

Awareness means constant observation of thought so thought does not transcend its own limits and say that it didn’t do so. So illusion and deception don’t go unnoticed. 

The whole movement must be totally understood. How all “parts” interrelate and interdepend. 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by Faceless