Why I stopped pursuing enlightenment

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Nahm First i thought it was playing with yourself. But that is nonsense, as it requires a duality between you and yourself. Then i realized it is just your being. So every desire is just another step in the dance to your own music?

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Psychadelics. ❤️❤️❤️ Transcend the brain model. 

 

The desirer is the desired. The goal is the means. 

Transcending the brain would mean the ending of desire. Not controlling, suppressing, and using desire ”psychedelics” to do so. 

I'm telling you my friend, the ending of desire/experience is to transcend the brain model. One who has had extraordinary psychedelic experiences further strengthens the shackles of desire/the center and therefore becomes slave to experience...One then is strengthening the ego and perpetuating a constant movement into the illusion of psychological time. This is the trap of thought. 

This is well know to the wisest of the wise. 

As I have said desire is the initiator of the center. 

Are you free of experience???? Aren't you interested in this?? 

 

“It has been said that the highest wisdom lies in detachment, or, in the words of Chung-Tzu, ‘The perfect man employs his mind as a mirror; it grasps nothing; it refuses nothing; it receives, but does not keep.” 

 

This is an example of one who lives life free of experience. Consciousness free of the content/movement of the conditioned mind. The ending of experience is truth/nothingness. 

 

So why does one hold on to experience? 

Why does one depend on experience? 

Do you see the how this reinforcing experience and therefore preventing a creative experiencing. Don't you want to live everyday free of the past? 

Unless one does there is never a new moment. You are then living in the illusion of the past and the future..Do you see that? 

Get rid of the static and come with me to the dynamic. 

I know you really like your psychedelics and that's fine. Your choice. See if you can end the movement of desire which is the thought/ego. The energy released is so immense. And its continual and never ending. 

I invite you to see if it is possible for yourself

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

@Faceless It is fun. Thank you. 

[Dino D]

Faceless, Naham... Why is your wonderful debate any different with any debate of two nice/normal full blown ego people, who debate as example about they viewpoints on politics, sports, or whatever...

 

 We have a saying in my country, something like: same Shi* other package...

 

Why I say this, I see the same mehanics in human behavior that are present it the low level of counciousness (with people that ere 100% egoic and not really intiligent) that are a kind of a ,,problem" trought the whole history and society-and that in extreme cases lead to fights, evil war, separation and so on..., SO i see those same mehanics with you two amazing guys, and on this forum in general... We are just not leaving the same circle of ,,happenings" that happen in this world since the begining of time... HISTORY REPEATS evan with you two who both exist on such a high level of counciousness and intiligence... you have the urge to defend what you think, to debate, to be touched by other persons, to prove your truth, to be on this forum at all, to do and say what you belive is right and then seperate a bit, yea, you put in nice words witch seams more like floscules then what you trully feel... Anyways my conclusions and observations about this debate is probbably not wright, but I still think that there are many mehanics that are present in common people trought the whole history of humans that are also present here... Its all the same just more complex and advanced...

WHY? Why dont we transcedent this? and finaly quit this cirlce? of the sam mehanical happenings... or can I say it evan like this? why cant we exist as ,,enligtened beings"?

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Faceless said:

truth/nothingness

 

11 hours ago, Faceless said:

The desirer is the desired. The goal is the means. 

Transcending the brain would mean the ending of desire. Not controlling, suppressing, and using desire ”psychedelics” to do so. 

I'm telling you my friend, the ending of desire/experience is to transcend the brain model. One who has had extraordinary psychedelic experiences further strengthens the shackles of desire/the center and therefore becomes slave to experience...One then is strengthening the ego and perpetuating a constant movement into the illusion of psychological time. This is the trap of thought. 

This is well know to the wisest of the wise. 

As I have said desire is the initiator of the center. 

Are you free of experience???? Aren't you interested in this?? 

 

“Controlling”, “suppressing”, “using desire”  “my friend”  “shackles” “slave” “strengthening the ego” “constant movement””trap of thought”

- Try to realize these are ALL projection, beliefs, because you don’t know that psychadelics are a form of self inquiry, which goes well beyond the self inquiry you’ve done. You’re saying you are wise. “The perfect man”. Come on dude. Seriously. Psychadelics are the opposite of what you’re projecting. Do you even know what nonduality & projection are? 

 

“It has been said that the highest wisdom lies in detachment, or, in the words of Chung-Tzu, ‘The perfect man employs his mind as a mirror; it grasps nothing; it refuses nothing; it receives, but does not keep.” 

lol. Great quote. So you are “the perfect man” then? I mean, you could have picked any quote. 

 

This is an example of one who lives life free of experience. Consciousness free of the content/movement of the conditioned mind. The ending of experience is truth/nothingness. 

Consider you’re living in denial that all you are is nothing experiencing. 

 

So why does one hold on to experience?  Your duality is that one “holds on”, this is your projection. 

Why does one depend on experience? Your duality is one “depends”, this is your projection.

Do you see the how this reinforcing experience and therefore preventing a creative experiencing. Don't you want to live everyday free of the past?

Your duality of experience is projection of ‘reinforcing’, ‘preventing a creative experiencing’ - Can you really not see this? 

Unless one does there is never a new moment. You are then living in the illusion of the past and the future..Do you see that? 

You should spend a minute on what projection is. There is only nonduality, synonymous with the now, nothingness. YOU. So you can look at anything and everything how ever you want - without projection! That, is freedom. 

Get rid of the static and come with me to the dynamic. 

I know you really like your psychedelics and that's fine. No, like you said the goal IS the means. What I like is self inquiry you are yet unaware of.

Your choice. See if you can end the movement of desire which is the thought/ego. The energy released is so immense. And its continual and never ending. 

I invite you to see if it is possible for yourself I did. You can’t see it. 

 

 

@Faceless It is fun. Thank you. ❤️???

You don’t actually know what psychadelics are. You have beliefs of what psychadelics are. This leads to assumptions and projecting that someone else is remembering and experience and therefore bound by past, trying to relive an experience. You can’t know you’re doing this, because you don’t know what psychadelics are. Wouldn’t you be better off without thoughts about them? Free of those beliefs? Given you don’t want to see for yourself, which I can appreciate. There’s no joke. 

If you realize the desired is the desirer, the goal is the means...then why do you apply duality that experience is ‘held on to’ and one must be ‘dependent on it’, and that psychedelics - which ARE YOU, are dualistically ‘controlling’, ‘suppressing’. See how you are stating nonduality, while implying controlling & suppressing? No? Is it possible that psychadelics are not what you think they are, since you don’t have any experience with them? You’d have to admit, it’s possible? No? Possible that it’s a much deeper method of self inquiry than you yet know? Since you have no idea what they are? Same with meditation & self inquiry. And expanding your mind for that matter. 

Admittedly, it’s unfair to expect you to see what I’m talking about. Like me telling you the actuality of Jeet Kune Do, something I know absolutely nothing about. (I think you just glimpsed the fun). I mean, imagine me, telling you, what a person who does Jeet Kune Do is like, and what it is, etc. Ridiculous, right? In the end ‘they’ ‘gained’ nothing for it, but that realization. ( I might be giving Jeet Kune Do to much credit here, I don’t know) 

[Nahm]

@Dino D Very valid questions. It’s because we’re talking about nonduality, not sports, etc. Do you know what nonduality is? 

[Faceless]

53 minutes ago, Nahm said:

And expanding your mind for that matter. 

Hehe 

Go ahead expand 

 

expanding mind has nothing to do with centerlessness/timelessness. Expanding mind is a FINITE movement of consciousness/TIME

 

ENDING TIME/MIND 

THIS IS WHERE IMMENSE ENERGY RESIDES

Edited May 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Dogsbestfriend]

Posts like a broken record. So much posturing in this forum. 

[moon777light]

back and forth arguments is just running inside a circle, no

[Faceless]

Precisely

As that is the nature of an argument. One choice in opposition to another choice. This is how thought operates. This is the movement of mind/consciousness/time. Due to this movement of choosing in accordance to one's own self centered preferences ”mind/thought” one clings to the choice that benefits there perspective of thinking. It's thought defending it's very function to maintain permanence, security. Thought/self is always moving to secure and validate itself. That is it’s function

A mind that chooses is confused. Consciousness that is confused lives in fear. Thought that is burdened by fear is only concerned with escaping that fear. 

A mind that escapes fear invites fear by inviting time/choice....

The cause is the effect and the effect is the cause. ⭕️

 

Can choice/thought end?? 

 

Thats the question

 

 

 

 

[Dino D]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Dino D Very valid questions. It’s because we’re talking about nonduality, not sports, etc. Do you know what nonduality is? 

I know by theory, but the real answer is: I dont know.

 

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Being physically alive means there is ego. I don't think you can get around it.

I have heard even Mooji say "Is he stupid or what?" 

Yes, I ment more in the direction can we transcedent the conflict? I  can have ego always, but will it govern my existence... Not in the way that every thought is a kind of a ego thing, I think on the root ego, the one that is fully a body mind, that exists and thinks like a egoic person, narcisoid, driven with primal forces and so on... the one that isnt tolerant that has to fight and so on... I mean I can be a good ego... My english is bad so I'm strugeling to explain... Some ego mehanics maybe must exist, but some can be broken 4ever, and transcedent, I belive... but as I observed even here those (,,stupid") mehanics that lead to conflicts are existing... peace

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Being physically alive means there is ego. I don't think you can get around it.

 

Realizing you’re Being not physically alive. That’s how you “get around”.  The Truth shall set you free is a profound statement.  

[Robert]

On 5/15/2018 at 2:00 PM, moon777light said:

Thoughts and opinions on this? Has it been shared in the group before?

I have no enlightenment experiences so i cant really judge but it sounds like he only scraped the tip of the iceberg of enlightenment 

The hero's journey never ends.

[Faceless]

3 hours ago, Robert said:

The hero's journey never ends.

And tomorrow never comes

[Nahm]

@Robert nice 

[Nahm]

@Faceless ?

[Robert]

39 minutes ago, Faceless said:

And tomorrow never comes

Because tomorrow is today?

 

@Nahm Thanks

[krazzer]

On 15-5-2018 at 8:00 PM, moon777light said:

Thoughts and opinions on this? Has it been shared in the group before?

I have no enlightenment experiences so i cant really judge but it sounds like he only scraped the tip of the iceberg of enlightenment 

I doubt that he will completely stop spiritually progressing. With the urge gone, I think his chances of waking up are even higher.