What is meditation that is not a movement of thought?

[robdl]

If Proposition 1 is: use a meditation technique to awaken

and Proposition 2 is: there are no techniques to awaken; all techniques involve the perpetuation of thought. 

What if this is a false choice?  What if it's a combination of the two? 

Like the analogy Leo uses, going to the top of a high hill with a lightning rod, but having no control over whether the lightning actually strikes you --- only maximizing the probability of it striking?  Is a meditation technique just equivalent to going to a high hill with a lightning rod?

[Faceless]

@cetus56 ??

[cetus]

 

2 minutes ago, robdl said:

What if this is a false choice?  What if it's a combination of the two? 

@robdl Yes it is a balance of the two. Let me put it this way. There is no one meditating. Meditation is just happening. No doer!

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, robdl said:

What if this is a false choice?  What if it's a combination of the two? 

Choice itself is false. Choice is a movement of the thinker.  Do you see that??? 

The question one can ask oneself is..

Do I need to put myself through the hoops to find this out?? This could take my entire life, if ever, as it does for many. 

The fact is that this can be seen right now. Ending psychological time does not depend on time. 

For me i saw this and ended it. You can do it too. I had never practiced any form of meditation at all. Never had a motive to become enlightened. I suffered until I saw the root of suffering which is psychological time. 

I ended that immediately. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Meditation is of itself. “The You” has nothing to do with it. Meditation is conciousness empty of its conditioned movement/content “the knower” 

To have a mind with NO-THING in it. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

So do we use time until we see the futility of that and then end time?  Or we can just end time today, right now. It’s that simple. It’s actually so simple that it is overlooked. 

Subtle subtle indeed. 

To continue to choose between choices is to perpetuate the movement of time/thought. Choice implies confusion, contradiction, conflict. Why torture yourself. 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Faceless

[blazed]

Information about meditation no longer helps me, in fact it adds confusion to what is really simple.

after 4 years of meditation usually 20mins a day its starting to click now.

I can do 1-2 hours meditation easily now, something that would have been impossible for me.

I become so intensely in the moment and so intense with existence itself, that the body and thoughts dissolve and I become pure awareness or consciousness itself.

It's pure emptiness and yet it's everything haha.

and it feels so pure, and clean.

I do not get the mystical experiences that Leo get's on drugs, its a blank consciousness because your brain is not going through abrupt chemical changes and imbalances caused by the drugs.

I'm assuming someone who can hold that intensity with everyday life is "enlightened".

Edited May 15, 2018 by blazed

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, blazed said:

Information about meditation no longer helps me, in fact it adds confusion to what is really simple.

after 4 years of meditation usually 20mins a day its starting to click now.

I can do 1-2 hours meditation easily now, something that would have been impossible for me.

I become so intensely in the moment and so intense with existence itself, that the body and thoughts dissolve and I become pure awareness or consciousness itself.

It's pure emptiness and yet it's everything haha.

and it feels so pure, and clean.

I do not get the mystical experiences that Leo get's on drugs, its a blank consciousness because your brain is not going through abrupt chemical changes and imbalances caused by the drugs.

I'm assuming someone who can hold that intensity with everyday life is "enlightened".

??

A mind that has NO-THING in it is free from all experience. 

There is only an experiencing which is quite different. Or what I call non experiencing.

Where I am completely unaware of myself. I also call this headless. For me it started in smaller intervals and has grown quite significantly. Sometimes not at favorable moments. I don’t dream. And sometimes I wake up ‘as meditation.’ 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

 

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

??

 And sometimes I wake up ‘as meditation’ 

How would you describe this?  Recently I awoke to the sense of consciousness perfectly mirroring/reflecting reality, with no thought or interference.

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

 

How would you describe this?  Recently I awoke to the sense of consciousness perfectly mirroring/reflecting reality, with no thought or interference.

Can’t describe it as it was not an experience.  It’s indescribable. 

I do know that there was abundance of energy. Immense indeed. 

[blazed]

12 minutes ago, Faceless said:

??

A mind that has NO-THING in it is free from all experience. 

There is only an experiencing which is quite different. Or what I call non experiencing. Where I am completely unaware of myself. I also call this headless. For me it started in smaller intervals and has grown quite significantly. Sometimes not at favorable moments. I don’t dream. And sometimes I wake up ‘as meditation’ 

It's not an experience, it's pure consciousness, but if I write about it, then it will seems like an experience.

But it's also not a brain dead experience, its not a no mind. When I try to practice no mind I was snoozing off, and the brain was feeling tired/foggy, I realised it's not about lowering your awareness it's about raising it.

When the meditation is intense you can see the ego and mind so consciously for what it really is.

By the way when I say intense I don't mean you sit and focus really hard lol, consciousness becomes intense full of existence.

With the emptiness right there with it.

Edited May 15, 2018 by blazed

[Guest Quanty]

Meditation is simply the attention of the 6th chakra upon 4th chakra while channeling that breath with the 2nd chakra into 1st chakra, and raising the kundalini energy through injaculation until you reach 5th chakra. After you open the plexus the 3rd chakra and the 7th chakra. I did not mention 6th chakra, because that is the radar to do all this. 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, blazed said:

It's not an experience, it's pure consciousness, but if I write about it, then it will seems like an experience.

But it's also not a brain dead experience, its not a no mind. When I try to practice no mind I was snoozing off, and the brain was feeling tired/foggy, I realised it's not about lowering your awareness it's about raising it.

When the meditation is intense you can see the ego and mind so consciously for what it really is.

By the way when I say intense I don't mean you sit and focus really hard lol, consciousness becomes intense full of existence.

Yeah I understand

 

For me it’s centerlessness where there is no self awareness at all. “Only the happening.” 

It started off observing the movement of thought/self, the whole, but as those movements of “time” ceased more and more, thought/time ceased to even manifest. To where there is no movement of the center anymore. 

[blazed]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Yeah I understand

 

For me it’s centerlessness where there is no self awareness at all. “Only the happening.” 

It started off observing the movement of thought/self, the whole, but as those movements of “time” ceased more and more, thought/time ceased to even manifest. To where there is no movement of the center anymore. 

Haha yeah it might be the same thing, but limitation of words can add confusion.

Yes I also found the body and mind dissolved but I was intensely aware that the "self" was there, the pure self.

"I am" Which is emptiness and everything in it, existence and non existence.

To be honest the more I write the more stupid it sounds so i'll stop now.

Edited May 15, 2018 by blazed

[Faceless]

To get back to understanding the nature of meditation....

What are “not” movements of meditation? 

[zoey101]

2 hours ago, Faceless said:

yeah 

The moment you sit down to ”do something” the process of thought has been activated. 

In this case the mediator is the meditated. But in most cases ”The meditator” sees itself as seperate from the process ”meditation” 

Very good that you are staying with the fact @zoey101

 

1 hour ago, Arkandeus said:

the more you meditate the more you are able to hear the silence of the inner being

a silence which will grow so loud your thoughts will seem like small pebbles in a sea, easy to ignore

its very normal that you're jumping from topic to topic, that is the beginning of meditation

I did as well so take it as a big sign of success , you're on the right road

learning to learn, the art of being a novice

 

59 minutes ago, starsofclay said:

 

 @zoey101 I highly recommend "The Mind Illuminated" by John Yates... it will teach you so much about meditation and in fact help to answer your question. its on the google play bookstore, not sure about ITunes

 

Thank you all  I'm gonna keep looking into it and trying  ----or not trying? lol

[Faceless]

@blazed 

Yeah

The description is never the described

 

 

[zoey101]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

To get back to understanding the nature of meditation....

What are “not” movements of meditation? 

thinking?  

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, zoey101 said:

thinking?  

Do we see that all thinking manifests out of the stream of thought.?? 

Do we see that “our thoughts” are not ours, and that they are conditioned?? 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Faceless

[zoey101]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Do we see that all thinking manifests out of the stream of thought.?? 

Do we see that “our thoughts” are not ours, and that they are conditioned?? 

 

Do you mean like how depending on what society and surroundings you are brought up in, that can determine your way of thinking?

I read about how Schizophrenia in the East is viewed as God speaking directly to you and can be seen as something beautiful but in the West it comes out violent and scary. Is it kind of like that?