Love to parents as an obstacle to enlightenment

[MarkusSweden]

24 minutes ago, eputkonen said:

 

The attachment and identification with "my" mother and "my" father...to blood ties...imprison through a believed "me" and belief in the existence of "others" / outsiders.

Exactly, and that is why I like to break up with my family. Not that I don't love them. I do. I just don't like that this attachment is a part of the family-ties. No matter if I no longer feel attachment, I know that they do, and there will be something projected upon me. Or at least it will not feel completely natural as in a meeting with a stranger, it's all voluntarily, no games, no unnecessary small talks or pushing the other around according to agenda/will. 

But letting go is not a problem for me, but it creates outer disturbances, so how to handle that? 

People say it's ego to break realtionship, but to me it feels like I have to be an ego to relate to them, act a role, a person that is. 

When I am resting in intuition, I'm indifferent to my family members, it feels like we speak different languages, that's how different we are. They are great though, I love them. But my true self has nothing to say or offer them and nothing to gain either. That will be acting from my side. 

Is it spiritual to continue that acting? My parents always say, just be who you are, we want you to be yourself, but if I am, I have no interests in spending time with them. So spending time with them involves acting on my end. 

That's an issue I don't know how to solve.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Rilles]

Absolute Infinity is yo momma now boy!

[eputkonen]

9 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Exactly, and that is why I like to break up with my family. Not that I don't love them. I do. I just don't like that this attachment is a part of the family-ties. No matter if I no longer feel attachment, I know that they do, and there will be something projected upon me. Or at least it will not feel completely natural as in a meeting with a stranger, it's all voluntarily, no games, no unnecessary small talks or pushing the other around according to agenda/will. 

But letting go is not a problem for me, but it creates outer disturbances, so how to handle that? 

People say it's ego to break realtionship, but to me it feels like I have to be an ego to relate to them, act a role, a person that is. 

When I am resting in intuition, I'm indifferent to my family members, it feels like we speak different languages, that's how different we are. They are great though, I love them. But my true self has nothing to say or offer them and nothing to gain either. That will be acting from my side. 

Is it spiritual to continue that acting? My parents always say, just be who you are, we want you to be yourself, but if I am, I have no interests in spending time with them. So spending time with them involves acting on my end. 

That's an issue I don't know how to solve.  

Why break up with anyone?  That is the action of an ego.  All is related and relation...there is no way to separate.

What it sounds like is you are trying to detach because you don't like this attachment to family.  However, detachment is also egoic.  Do not attach or detach, just be nonattached...which is all what you really are can be.  Only the ego tries to hold on or push away.

Awakening does not mean you cease playing games...it just means that there is understanding that it is just a game.  Also, things arise in response automatically.  As you walk down the street, you might pass someone who smiles and says, "hello."  You smile and respond with "hello."  This is the true self.  It is not that there is nothing to say.  There is nothing to gain or lose, but if someone says - "so, how has work been lately?"  You might respond with "it is going well.  I am up for a promotion."  How would this be different if your father or mother asked?  It wouldn't be.

You say you have no interest in spending time with them, but do you have interest in spending time doing something else?  If so, why the partiality?  If you have no interest in whatever is done, then why not spread love and joy...and your parents will be overjoyed by occasional visits.  It doesn't matter to you either way...so why not?

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

But don't you think such enlightened action is a byproduct of enlightenment

This idea ‘of thought’ of enlightenment/liberation that is commonly sought after “grasped for” is precisely the very reason one never gets it. One can spend ones whole life chasing/grasping for not realizing that the very grasping for is the barrier itself. All that movement of self must end. Movement of self can not end the movement of self. Time can not end time. 

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

not something that can be practiced/done separately?

Enlightened “whole action” is not the result of practice. Practice is a movement of cultivation “thought” and is conditioned. To cultivate is to invite time as a means to end the self. Again the self cannot end by cultivation of time/thought. This strengthens self even more and causes a plethora of neurosis. 

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

Aren't we doing the same thing? We see unconditional love, compassion, dispassion, trans-morality etc. traits of enlightened beings(which they acquired or got used to as a package simultaneously with Truth realization) and we think that we can separately practice these non conceptual things while we are in the deluded state. All we got now is the burden of mental concepts of unconditional love, compassion, non doership etc. Then we judge and beat ourselves up when we can't measure up to that Enlightened scale. It is impossible to measure up to that scale. These qualities are automatic response of the enlightened beings.

Indeed. Enlightened or intelligent action is only when all movement of thought/measure ends. Those qualities do not come from any type of mental cultivation which includes all practices, methods, and systems “time” ...As those imply that one is still acting according to the conditioned movement of mind. 

 

Time ‘being finite’ can only see partially and therefore cannot end time. Only a whole action  ‘timeless action’ can end time. To end time ‘the movement of thought/self’ is the action of TRUTH. Only Truth which is ‘immeasurable/timeless’ or NO-thing ‘total perception’ can see the whole of time and end it.

The essence “truth” acts instantly without the limited/finite movement of thought. Truth sees the whole of thought. This is where wisdom comes from. 

 

Wisdom= to see

 

Wisdom is the exposition of TRUTH

Action not influenced by the static movement of time/thought. That’s why those qualities are instantaneous/complete. 

[MarkusSweden]

2 minutes ago, eputkonen said:

Why break up with anyone?  That is the action of an ego.  All is related and relation...there is no way to separate.

What it sounds like is you are trying to detach because you don't like this attachment to family.  However, detachment is also egoic.  Do not attach or detach, just be nonattached...which is all what you really are can be.  Only the ego tries to hold on or push away.

Awakening does not mean you cease playing games...it just means that there is understanding that it is just a game.  Also, things arise in response automatically.  As you walk down the street, you might pass someone who smiles and says, "hello."  You smile and respond with "hello."  This is the true self.  It is not that there is nothing to say.  There is nothing to gain or lose, but if someone says - "so, how has work been lately?"  You might respond with "it is going well.  I am up for a promotion."  How would this be different if your father or mother asked?  It wouldn't be.

You say you have no interest in spending time with them, but do you have interest in spending time doing something else?  If so, why the partiality?  If you have no interest in whatever is done, then why not spread love and joy...and your parents will be overjoyed by occasional visits.  It doesn't matter to you either way...so why not?

I guess it has to do with my history with them as well. I was always the diplomatic one, and I have played a role that I don't like, that has nothing to do with me I feel. It's like I'm kidnapped psychologically and can't break free from that role. 

I use to have social fobia and that is very much build in to the relation I think and how they view me. But I feel I have nothing to do with that either really. There is a psychological trap somehow that I contributed to build up during the years. I am very sensitive and like everyone to feel good and seen. But in the end that only lower my self esteem. 

My family are caring and very capable, all of them have good works and are respectable. But they don't treat each other as respectfully and sensitive as I like. Love feels little bit silly together with them. To me love is everything. 

I feel a little bit pathetical I guess. They are never mean or anything, it's just that love/relationships are not that holy as it is to me. They are materialists I guess, nice houses and cars, good jobs, always well cleaned, fine clothes. That's more important then what one feel about one another. To love and the feeling are essential and the other things are important after the first criteria is met. 

I like to view everyone as infinite important and respectable, I can't stand the smallest gossiping. The human values doesn't feel that important to them, but they are friendly and never mean of course. 

It's just my sensitive nature that seem to loose all energy when spending time with less sensitive people, unless it's just random contact with a stranger of a colleague at work that I have no ties to in my private life. 

I like to only have sensitive people in my private life, that understands that love and the human value is more important then anything else. 

So you see what I mean?  

What is great and holy to me are nothing of importance to some people, and I tend to have huge integrity towards such people, and only like to open up with people that share this understanding. 

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

What do you do when people ask you what you are up to because they sense your peace and happiness. But the question itself comes from thoughts and they assume your action comes from thoughts as well. 

I don’t concern myself with it at all. 

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

How do you treat that without felling interrupt, because answer them from a place of no thoughts might disturb them. 

They may not understand but I don’t get involved in that anyhow. I just give subtle hints through how I conduct myself. 

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

Is it possible to live a life that you advocate without leading a life in solitude? 

I live in a small city and am surrounded by people. Inward loneliness/seclusion allows for space to live a orderly life. But one does not have to escape to a cave. That is simply another positive manifestation of self. If one has to escape to live life as an art then one has missed the point all together. 

There is the solitude that one seeks to escape thought which leads one absolutely nowhere and there is the inward loneliness/solitude that one maintains by ending the movement of thought all together. 

There is a big difference. I am alone/in solitude inwardly which allows for me to be space for another face, so to speak ?

[eputkonen]

2 hours ago, MarkusSweden said:

I like to only have sensitive people in my private life, that understands that love and the human value is more important then anything else. 

So you see what I mean? 

Question...is this loving and valuing the people you would call insensitive?  Are you valuing those humans as well?

Furthermore, you are describing egoic issues: you don't like...lowers your self esteem...they don't treat each other as you like...you loose energy...etc.  That "you" is a fiction...it is only a thought you are holding onto.

[iamme]

18 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Word 'hate' must be a mistranslation from the Hebrew. Jesus must have said: Be indifferent, ignore. Don't be attached any more. He must have used some term which means 'be detached' from your parents, because the word 'hate' cannot be used for many reasons. If you hate your parents, you are not yet detached, you are not free.

I doubt Jesus preached hate. He more likely preached letting go. All of them preached letting go and the question is "how?".

[pluto]

If you think you are enlightened, go spend a week with your parents - Ram Dass

[phoenix666]

27 minutes ago, pluto said:

If you think you are enlightened, go spend a week with your parents - Ram Dass

love that quote, gets me every time

exactly what happens to me when my parents come home after work - my enlightenment bubble burst just like that  

[Guest Quanty]

In the end one can only experience the truth, alone. 

[okulele]

In one of my psylocybin experiences I was going through what seemed like physical death. I was just willing to let go, when a thought stopped me. Mainly: "What are my parents gonna do when I die on them?"

Attachment like that has to go before liberation for sure.

[mp22]

I am honestly glad I got away from this ideology.   This is just more darkness

[Ether]

@Saumaya Damn, u bacc

[zoey101]

I could just be weird, but I feel like my parents did their best to ensure I had a loving and open mind to every one and everything. I don't think that is a hindrance, personally, but I could be wrong.

I think the only reason I am able and willing to learn any of this is because of the way they raised me  

but I could be missing the point lol 

[Sri Ramana Maharshi]

On 5/14/2018 at 10:22 AM, MarkusSweden said:

Great quote! 

Can you break it down? What does it mean? 

I think it refers to something Buddhists call Samvega [hardcore renunciation], but that's a humble piss of opinion and please don't believe it, just investigate friend!  Some folks seem to manage super-enlightenment with Samvega and some without...go check out your case ==> enjoy! :-)

[phoenix666]

21 hours ago, okulele said:

In one of my psylocybin experiences I was going through what seemed like physical death. I was just willing to let go, when a thought stopped me. Mainly: "What are my parents gonna do when I die on them?"

Attachment like that has to go before liberation for sure.

I know exactly what you mean, I experienced the same thing. I sometimes feel caged by what I feel for my parents. ultimately I had to look straight into myself and admit: I still look for acceptance, approval and love. not so much from other people any more. but still from my parents. it holds me back..

[okulele]

2 hours ago, phoenix666 said:

I know exactly what you mean, I experienced the same thing. I sometimes feel caged by what I feel for my parents. ultimately I had to look straight into myself and admit: I still look for acceptance, approval and love. not so much from other people any more. but still from my parents. it holds me back..

You are not alone in this. Patience with yourself, my friend!

[phoenix666]

@okulele yeah, we're in this together <3

[Buba]

I gave up cannabis because it was inducing fear in me. I remember once I started to investigate why I have this fear which does not make sense. I dig deeper and deeper and found out that my biggest fear is my parents. When I think I might die I think my death would be devastating for my parents. When I do something "shameful" I think my parents will be embarrassed because of this. And etc. I have OCD and Borderline Personality Disorder nd when in my first visit psychiatrist said that my disorder were caused by my parents I laughed and said it was impossible. But day by day I figured out how they imprisoned me psychologically since my childhood. I always envied junkies, criminals, who did not care their families, the tears of their moms. Who were so free. They did not feel sorry for their parents. Zero attachment.