Does meditation really work or is it just the Placebo effect?

[BjarkeT]

The placebo effect is when a person get a fake cure/treatment but it seems to work because the person who use it think it works or believe it will work not because the treatment actually works. 

how would we know it really does work and it's not just the placebo effect at play?

Edited May 11, 2018 by BjarkeT
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[Ether]

Can you feel inner peace? Happiness, joy, euphoria? Stillness of the body? Of the mind?

If so, it works.

[BjarkeT]

@Ether but how do you know that isn't just the placebo effect? Because that would be exactly what you would feel because of the placebo effect if the placebo effect where behind it.

[Ether]

1 minute ago, BjarkeT said:

@Ether but how do you know that isn't just the placebo effect? Because that would be exactly what you would feel because of the placebo effect if the placebo effect where behind it.

Placebo usually only works once.

[tecladocasio]

but if is effective , what is the diference  if is placebo or not ?

[BjarkeT]

@Ether could you elaborate? What do you mean only work onces? And why do you think that is the case?

[blazed]

8 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

The placebo effect is when a person get a fake cure/treatment but it seems to work because the person who use it think it works or believe it will work not because the treatment actually works. 

how would we know it really does work and it's not just the placebo effect at play?

Because they have actually done experiments.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by blazed

[BjarkeT]

@blazed but how do they know that isn't the placebo effect at play? How can you tell the difference?

"the scientific power of the placebo effect"

from reading on the placebo effect it seems like it could have the same effect meditation seem to have

does anyone know if there is any scientific research on this?

Edited May 11, 2018 by BjarkeT

[blazed]

9 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

@blazed but how do they know that isn't the placebo effect at play? How can you tell the difference?

because

placebo

pləˈsiːbəʊ/

noun

noun: placebo; plural noun: placebos

a medicine or procedure prescribed for the psychological benefit to the patient rather than for any physiological effect.

a substance that has no therapeutic effect, used as a control in testing new drugs.

a measure designed merely to humour or placate someone.

-----

The video i linked you show experiments where they have confirmed the observable benefits and changes to the body, and so it is not only in the "mind" therefore not only a placebo, there is real physical changes.

It's like saying yo man, what if cardio running was just a placebo.

Edited May 11, 2018 by blazed

[BjarkeT]

@blazed the video talk about how thought can have effect at the physical body also at near the end of the video

[blazed]

8 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

@blazed the video talk about how thought can have effect at the physical body also at near the end of the video

If you could sit and think about pressing 100kg every day and then you actually go and bench press 100kg at the gym then it wouldnt be a placebo, it would be something that actually works and a valid technique.

Placebo would be you you imagine pressing 100kg every day, you feel like you can do it and you misjudge your stregnth and then you go to the gym and you can't even move the bar in the slightest.

Placebo also is when you take a drug and get high and you think you're invincible and you can fly and you end up dead

Edited May 11, 2018 by blazed

[Faceless]

If one seeks psychological security by means through thought that is like a placebo effect. This is a rather common pattern/movement of the self/seeker. 

To seek psychological security in any way is only temporary and only leads to psychological insecurity. Belief in organized religion is a great example. Any movement of escape away from fear would qualify. 

[BjarkeT]

@blazed

the placebo effect can actually produce an effect on the body however it usually fade away is what they explained in this video near the end.

if meditation works longer than the placebo effect with just doing both for equally long time and meditation works longer of the two then I suppose that would mean meditation is real since if it was a placebo effect it would fade away

 

also i am not sure if taking drugs would qualify as the placebo effect if they actually have an effect on the body that you don't produce your self

Edited May 11, 2018 by BjarkeT

[blazed]

6 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

@blazed

the placebo effect can actually produce an effect on the body however it usually fade away is what they explained in this video near the end

Science has long known the effects of positive thinking, hence why they usually tell cancer patients to be positive and stress-free.

When you put your mind and body is positive mode it does more to heal itself where as if you get stressed and worried you tend to be more likely to become ill.

But there are also experiments where a real drug did something and placebo did nothing.

So the sugar pills "placebo pills" is useless and junk, but "positive thinking" is a real and legit technique.

When you read/study a science book you are just using your "mind" and "power of thought" so is the learning a real thing or just a placebo?

Considering that meditators don't usually have their benefits faded away lets call it more than just a placebo.

[BjarkeT]

@blazed people who mediate usually do it more than one time throughout a longer period of time. So it does't really qualify as "proper evidence" since the placebo effect could have the same result if one also did equally as much. If you would need good evidence you would need someone who just meditated once and would have a longer effect than someone who used the placebo effect once by comparing the two this way it's more likely to get an accurate result.

Edited May 11, 2018 by BjarkeT

[InfinitePotential]

People don't appreciate the placebo effect it's like "oh probably just the placebo effect" but the fact that your beliefs can heal your body is profound af and should be a cause of celebration.

A meditation practice will enhance every last one of your placebo effects. Your beliefs create reality anyways so really it's all just one big placebo/nocebo effect 

[BjarkeT]

@InfinitePotential "but the fact that your beliefs can heal your body is profound af" agree

[blazed]

4 minutes ago, BjarkeT said:

@blazed people who mediate usually do it more than one time throughout a longer period of time. So it does't really qualify as "proper evidence" since the placebo effect could have the same result if one also did equally as much. If you would need good evidence you would need someone who just meditated once and would have a longer effect than someone who used the placebo effect once by comparing the two this way it's more likely to get an accurate result.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

How do you have a "placebo" meditation as opposed to a real meditation?

They can only compare meditators to non meditators.

[BjarkeT]

@blazed just like they did in the video with one who they gave real medicine to and "placebo" medicine you could test someone who actually does meditation and someone who do a "placebo" version of it(for example they believe what they are doing have the same effect as meditation) and then they both only do it once and test both for the results. If the one who actually did the meditation and the effect didn't fade away it would mean it more likely to be real since if it was the placebo effect it would fade away. 

However if the placebo effect produces the same result as meditation it could mean meditation is just a placebo effect

Edited May 11, 2018 by BjarkeT

[Faceless]

If one is using mediatation to become free of suffering/liberated that is a placebo effect. 

Because you are then employing thought to ease a psychological problem. Escaping fear. 

The placebo effect may have positive physical effects as well as temporary positive effects psychologically 

But ultimately that positive psychological effect turns on you. 

False sense of security

Edited May 11, 2018 by Faceless