is it just me or this is how the world is?

[aurum]

@MarkusSweden @Nahm

I agree with you guys but I think it's also important to point out that @Spinoza isn't entirely wrong either though.

Yes it's all perfect and yes it's all Love. But let's not go into spiritual bypassing mode.

Think about the environment. Human beings are basically destroying the planet, is that just perception too? Or is that because human beings can be selfish and low consciousness?

To me, that's something that needs to be acknowledged so it can be dealt with. Not swept under the rug because of high level spiritual truths.

[MarkusSweden]

28 minutes ago, aurum said:

@MarkusSweden @Nahm

I agree with you guys but I think it's also important to point out that @Spinoza isn't entirely wrong either though.

Yes it's all perfect and yes it's all Love. But let's not go into spiritual bypassing mode.

Think about the environment. Human beings are basically destroying the planet, is that just perception too? Or is that because human beings can be selfish and low consciousness?

To me, that's something that needs to be acknowledged so it can be dealt with. Not swept under the rug because of high level spiritual truths.

I hear you. 

I suppose you are talking about the climate? In that respect we indeed destroy the planet. 

But I was talking about  @Spinoza formulation on collective consciousness which he attributed mind games, lies, judgements, lack of sincerity to.

All of that is just his inner projections. Once he find truth inside he can't find none of that mentioned above in the world, simply because it doesn't exist except as an illusion of his inner projections, which will be gone once he find truth. (Inner and outer are one and the same)

But you made a great point about the climate, we really have to improve as a human spices. (+1) 

[Guest Quanty]

Society wants to help in a selfish way, egoistic driven pattern followers.

“Kindly let me help you or you will drown,” said the monkey putting the fish safely up a tree. -Alan Watts (one of the best common sense OM, last century had).

 

[Nahm]

19 hours ago, Spinoza said:

When i look to society, i see there is no sincerity, no real sense of unity, a lot of selfishness, judgment, mind games, i see that MOST of people want to do evil without any reason.

On internet, media, I see a lot of people saying that they are looking to make the world better, they want unity and peace,  but i can't see that in the real world.

is it just me or this is how the world is?

I hear what you guys are saying. Reality is realized to be a one’s own projection or it isn’t ; there either is assertion or there is not. My resolve is from what I’ve seen of my self, not a fairytale concept. Even person is the one, and every person is perfect, not good or bad. The ‘movie’ contains good or bad, the actuality does not. 

I also think this points a little at the depth Leo is going to. I think it continually (not on this post) gets minimized to an understanding from assertion and physicality, and ‘other’. BTW, I get it, and have no expectations anyone will agree with me here.   (Subtle nondual humor)

”This place is a dream, only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at everything you thought was your grief.”

-Rumi

[MarkusSweden]

38 minutes ago, now is forever said:

 

i think if you are really thinking the world outside is just a projection, well then that doesn't matter. but then there is just you and no one else! verry loving indeed!

no the world is beautiful and cruel!

 

I see what place you are at. You are pre-enlightened, been there, done that. It's a deluded state. I know it doesn't seem that way for you right now, but you will understand in retrospect post-enlightenment. 

Your statement has a ground in the illusion of duality, the illusion of two, inner being and outer world. Right now you got an idea that cruelty can exist in the outer world even if you don't have cruelty inside of you, in your heart so to speak. Thats would be discrepancy, and DISCREPANCY is IMPOSSIBLE WITHIN ONENESS. You live in a lie, in the illusion of duality, but don't worry, you will get there. 

When you have had a samadhi or an enlightened experience deep enough to realise that all is one, then it will become perfectly clear that your inner being IS the very outer world.

If you have judgement within, then you gonna find it in the world as well. If you have no inner judgements or lies, there will literary not be ONE SINGLE judgement or lie in the entire world. LITERARY

My god, this is so damn simply when you got in. It's oneness, nothing but radical oneness. 

WAKE UP! 

Edited May 12, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[tsuki]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Think about the environment. Human beings are basically destroying the planet, is that just perception too? Or is that because human beings can be selfish and low consciousness?

To me, that's something that needs to be acknowledged so it can be dealt with. Not swept under the rug because of high level spiritual truths.

Not trying to claim that I know high level spiritual truths, but I have something to add.

Humans are the environment that they destroy. Humans are the planet.
Our destruction of the planet is the result of our never-ending drive to solve problems.

To see the problem in the destruction of the environment is a manifestation of our excessive need for solving problems.
Nobody has ever solved a single problem. We have only renamed them, or hid them from ourselves.
 

Edited May 12, 2018 by tsuki

[Faceless]

We are the problem. 

We are not responsible. We are responsible for things that benefit our own special interest. But not the whole of things. We continue to say the world is fu****, as if it was seperate from ourselves. There is no responsibility. 

We escape facts and hide in abstractions. Every movement we as “independent entity’s” make to become psychologically secure makes for physical insecurity for the whole. 

But we blame others “society/world” not seeing that we as the “individual” is the problem. We constantly quibble over the solution without realizing the actual problem. 

Because when it comes down to it we are not willing to see the fact. This is a movement of fear. Thought/self in self preservation mode. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Faceless

[MarkusSweden]

8 minutes ago, now is forever said:

no - i don't think so - got my initiation when i was 16. now i'm 36.

its both inside and outside and one. 

in german it's : 

"die einheit der wiedersprüche"

it means it is different and it is not. it is always both and it is still whole.

the reality is real and it is not.

i am bad and good.

you understand me and you don't.

i understand you and i don't.

i think i'm quiet awake and you?

are you or are you not? 

i think yo are both!

"die einheit der wiedersprüche" Some wisdom there, love it, thank you! 

Both "two" and "one" simultaneously. 

I talk to you(separation) but still I'm you, you are me somehow. Duality within oneness. 

Rings very true, yet a little bit difficult wrap one's mind around it. 

But mind is not suppose to get absolutely truth anyway.  

off topic. Which city in Germany is the most nice for a weekend trip. No party life, but good food and restaurants, interesting culture, history and architecture, maybe a museum worth visiting as well. Nature and parks are nice as well. 

[Spinoza]

I think it depend from which angle we see the world, If i insult someone in the forum, i can't tell him it's your own interpretation or you find that insulting because of your inner , there is a reason why the forum is moderated (if it's not moderated we know what will happen, human is still primitive) 

We choose how to react it's from the inside, but we don't control other people behaviors 

What i meant in my post, that we human we are constantly talking about peace and love, you see that everywhere, but actuality it's not what is happening, there is tons of ignorance ...deep ignorance, more than what you can imagine, spirituality can help to detaches from that and focus less on that negative side (i don't believe in free will i don't blame, not everyone can be conscious it's very rare and it's not a choice) 

in my opinion human species is surviving, very few people are bringing value (*what is considered as value is subjective)

Most of people are looking for primitive desire, feeling in competition, and because they will never fulfill theirs desire they will always be negative, creating more problem to themselves, and to others.

[Spinoza]

I think non duality is more deeper than that, i think if we REALLY try to see things from non dual perspective we should not be here in the forum talking

[MarkusSweden]

9 minutes ago, Spinoza said:

I think non duality is more deeper than that, i think if we REALLY try to see things from non dual perspective we should not be here in the forum talking

why not? Not to learn maybe, but because of the joy of sharing?

Don't you like the forum?

Edited May 12, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Spinoza]

13 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

why not? Not to learn maybe, but because of the joy of sharing?

Don't you like the forum?

No, you did not understand what i meant, i mean you won't feel the need to share your opinions, you won't look for what you called " joy of sharing" or for proving that your view is right 

[BjarkeT]

I doubt that most people want to do evil things. There is also many different kind of people so you can't really put everyone in to one category.

[Faceless]

@BjarkeT

The placebo/nocebo effect applies here as well. 

The utilization of thought in the practical/functional realm and the psychological realm. 

To invite thought as means to solve psychological problems causes psychological/physical problems in the world. 

Classic fragmentatio?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Faceless