Trusting shit

[Jamie Universe]

here's the definition of trust:

firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.

 

so by definition, we can never trust anything 100%, except maybe enlightenment.. idk. 

But I wanted to bring this up to talk about trusting in techniques / sources / information. Because I feel like I'm constantly finding out that something I trusted is wrong in some way. I think in Leo's video about understanding big picture understanding he talks about not taking positions and finding as much information as possible, and there's also his video about researching. I've kind of developed this paranoia that the stuff I do will end up not working out, or something obscure and random will fuck me over.

 

So I guess what I wanted to know, what makes you trust stuff? What do you do to make sure you don't fuck everything up by deluding yourself? Or is this even a problem for you (<-- has most stuff you've trusted ended up being true or working out.)

 

 

[ZZZZ]

I think the best way to trust anything is through direct experience. The tricky part is having a "true" experience, instead of just taking something for face value, or tricking yourself internally that you've experienced something when you really haven't. This is a pretty vague answer for a pretty vague question. I will say that even someone like Leo could be "deluding" you (intentionally or otherwise), so it is a good skill to be able to take a step back and evaluate anything that is presented to you at face value. Sometimes you just have to fuck up to rule things out too, and that's okay.

[Jamie Universe]

@ZZZZ True, I think I made this post out of paranoia honestly, I think some part of me thinks I'm going to go through life faced with obstacles and not going to be able to overcome them. I'll work on my paranoia instead.

[Preetom]

I can think of 2 approaches.

1) Take everything as a hypothesis and put an educated faith on the path and your ability to accomplish that. Just like learning physics from a course/book. You must put some faith that this book will at least teach you something which you can then use to think for yourself in this subject. You can be skeptical about Physics but if your skepticism prevents you from learning anything about Physics all of your life (because you can't trust a book/teacher/course), then you've totally missed the chance of having some understanding and maybe start thinking for yourself in that department.

2) Observation. Pure, uncontaminated, non-manipulative observation. If there is one thing we can place our 100% trust, its observation. Its the most direct, purest way of knowing/being. And the wonderful thing is there is no loss in observation. If you just sit and stare at a wall for 5 years, who knows you might even get enlightened haha 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Preetom

[WaterfallMachine]

I agree that direct observation is the best way, but for many issues, we can’t always affirm it directly. Like issues such as the political decision of who to vote for during the elections — where you have to count on believing certain statistics or groups of people. Where to invest, what doctor to trust with your health, what lawyer you’d choose, who you would like to work for, and so many issues that require that we believe in certain experts or at least other opinions.

One way to tell if they’re worthy of trusting is if they’re willing to admit they’re wrong or that they don’t know everything. That they’re willing to patiently take account doubts against them, instead of getting angry from attacks on their ego.

Another might be simply asking other less unbiased sources — people who won’t benefit from some status or money from telling you — on what they think of them. Like online reviews or word of mouth. 

Another is that people who have first hand experience on something you want to know is a more reliable source of information than people who heard it from a book, a documentary or something else. A real life interview is best, but for accesibility, a book written by them or to talk through them to a forum can be good too.

[Key Elements]

I always go back to this saying:

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. Many of us get caught up in the end results of what we're working toward or the way things will be when we finally achieve something. ... Achieving your version of "enlightenment" is not an endpoint in and of itself.

If I research and learn something from someone famous or not because it was wise, I try to take baby action steps on it. This creates your own unique path. It will get clearer as you go along if you're really into it. Try not to cling or get obsessed with anything. Live in the present moment.

Also, enlightenment isn't a requirement. To me, if it happens, it happens with "meaningfulness." But then, life continues. 

All in all, sure you could trust something because you could take actions on it, and it's a wise piece of advice, but sooner or later, you'll move on because the information gets old.

[Guest Quanty]

I assure you,

the mind and concepts cannot be trusted,

but the body as a whole with the feelings that come with can be 100% trusted. 

[NoSelfSelf]

You trust intuition + best information you know at that point but knowing its limited

[MisterMan]

17 hours ago, Jamie Universe said:

here's the definition of trust:

firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something.

 

so by definition, we can never trust anything 100%, except maybe enlightenment.. idk. 

But I wanted to bring this up to talk about trusting in techniques / sources / information. Because I feel like I'm constantly finding out that something I trusted is wrong in some way. I think in Leo's video about understanding big picture understanding he talks about not taking positions and finding as much information as possible, and there's also his video about researching. I've kind of developed this paranoia that the stuff I do will end up not working out, or something obscure and random will fuck me over.

 

So I guess what I wanted to know, what makes you trust stuff? What do you do to make sure you don't fuck everything up by deluding yourself? Or is this even a problem for you (<-- has most stuff you've trusted ended up being true or working out.)

 

 

i've said it before and i'll saying it again, from the great allan watts.  loose paraphrase mode on *click*

"belief is when you hold on, faith is the act of letting go." 

 

With what you said, you may be right, or not, there is an element of faith that must (and i use this in the loosest term possible because  i possibly don't know what i'm talking about) be cultivated.

 

[Highest]

Knowing is limited, the intellect is limited. I don't trust anything with certainty. I don't feel I need to know anything, I leave everything to be for itself, I do it consciously, leaving everything for itself, whatever may be true or false, real or not, I don't indulge in it.

[The Don]

Hi.

Great topic.

I had the same struggle when I started my journey of Self-Actualization.

I had a lot of doubts because people were complaining about results.

Then I set up a meditation habit. I meditate every single day.

After a month results started to come.

So if you want to know what's working and what's not working, you need to experiment things for yourself.

Practice and see what is bringing you results.

Good luck.

 

[Nahm]

@The Don Man your vibration is squeaky clean. Rare. Was your grandpa enlightened? And charismatic as all get out? (I know that’s weird just askin)

[Nahm]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:51 AM, Quanty said:

I assure you,

the mind and concepts cannot be trusted,

but the body as a whole with the feelings that come with can be 100% trusted. 

+1

That right there should be carved into a 100 foot stone wall for every living thing to know.  Beautiful Quanty. 

[pluto]

The Master has no mind of her own.
She understands the mind of the people.

To those who are good she treats as good.
To those who aren’t good she also treats as good.
This is how she attains true goodness.

She trusts people who are trustworthy.
She also trusts people who aren’t trustworthy.
This is how she gains true trust.

The Master’s mind is shut off from the world.
Only for the sake of the people does she muddle her mind.
They look to her in anticipation.
Yet she treats them all as her children.

When you do not trust people,
people will become untrustworthy.