Do you believe in 'anti-gurus'?

[WindInTheLeaf]

Do you believe there are people walking around society, that are actively trying to stop those on their way to self-actualization/enlightenment/whatever, whether they are part of some kind of organization or not? If yes, have you ever encountered anyone that you suspected of doing this(and what did they do that made you suspect it)?

 

[John Iverson]

Just look in to yourself , you have there trying to stop your enlightenment and self actualization.. if there is non? Why is that no one bothers to go to enlightenment and self actualization ? There are some but very minimal people continue to their journey... if you can continue your journey to the finish line you will understand why is it hard to be enlightened and actualized

:D.... you don't have to look outward, just look inside and you will see how you and others are the same ... haha!

Edited May 10, 2018 by John Iverson

[Solace]

There is 7 billion of these anti-gurus. They must be eliminated, lol. Anything popular in society is the biggest anti guru such as mainstream media and big corporations like McDonald's I believe.

[Nahm]

@WindInTheLeaf They’re very easy to spot. Usually in 1 or 2 sentences.

[Joseph Maynor]

Sure.  People who act like Gurus but who depend on you staying lower consciousness than them so they can retain their Egoic power over the group. Think of a cult leader.  These people don’t really want you to grow to their Growth Level because it’s a threat to their advantage over you.  A true Guru wants you to reach whatever Growth Level you decide to evolve into, even if it’s higher than theirs.  The anti-guru wants you to grow — but only so much as you don’t upset their system.  The anti-guru is all about themselves — the true Guru is about the entire Network of perspectives.  

Edited May 10, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Solace said:

There is 7 billion of these anti-gurus. They must be eliminated, lol. Anything popular in society is the biggest anti guru such as mainstream media and big corporations like McDonald's I believe.

+ 1

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Nahm Wouldn't that depend on your ability to see through their disguise? If someone encounters one at an early stage of their spiritual journey, and the 'anti-guru' is a master, how would they be able to tell whether he/she is a guide or the opposite? How would you test them?

[aurum]

4 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

Do you believe there are people walking around society, that are actively trying to stop those on their way to self-actualization/enlightenment/whatever, whether they are part of some kind of organization or not? If yes, have you ever encountered anyone that you suspected of doing this(and what did they do that made you suspect it)?

 

Yes, some people are actively trying to hold others back. But it's always from a place of ignorance.

[WindInTheLeaf]

@Joseph Maynor What if the false guru/anti-guru/cult-leader hides his/her intention so well, that you are led to believe that he/she wants to help you. Isn't this the reason why people have fallen into the trap, and continue to do so? How do you distinguish between the illusion of a guru and the true guru, if you are still half asleep? Isn't it after we wake up from the dream, that we notice something was strange?

[Arman]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Sure.  People who act like Gurus but who depend on you staying lower consciousness than them so they can retain their Egoic power over the group. Think of a cult leader.  These people don’t really want you to grow to their Growth Level because it’s a threat to their advantage over you.  A true Guru wants you to reach whatever Growth Level you decide to evolve into, even if it’s higher than theirs.  The anti-guru wants you to grow — but only so much as you don’t upset their system.  The anti-guru is all about themselves — the true Guru is about the entire Network of perspectives.  

really like this response... 

1 hour ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@Joseph Maynor What if the false guru/anti-guru/cult-leader hides his/her intention so well, that you are led to believe that he/she wants to help you. Isn't this the reason why people have fallen into the trap, and continue to do so? How do you distinguish between the illusion of a guru and the true guru, if you are still half asleep? Isn't it after we wake up from the dream, that we notice something was strange?

and a beautiful and powerful question 

[Prabhaker]

4 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

If someone encounters one at an early stage of their spiritual journey, and the 'anti-guru' is a master, how would they be able to tell whether he/she is a guide or the opposite? How would you test them?

The Sanskrit term for gravity is Gurutvakarshan. Guru means one who has gravitation, around whom you suddenly feel as if you are being pulled. The guru is a tremendous magnet, with only one’ difference. There is a man who has charisma — you are pulled, but you are pulled towards him. That is the man of charisma. He may become a great leader, a great politician. Adolf Hitler has that charisma; millions of people are pulled towards him. Then what is the difference between a charismatic leader and a guru? The difference is tremendous. The difference is: when you are pulled towards a guru you suddenly feel that you are being pulled inwards, not outwards.

The feeling is that you are being pulled towards them and at the same time you are being pulled inwards — a very strange paradoxical phenomenon at the closer you come to your guru, the closer you come yourself. The more you become attracted towards the guru, the more you become independent. The more you become surrendered to the guru, the more you feel that you ave freedom you never had before.

So it is a very subtle difference. Remember it. If you are Pulled towards a man and that pull creates a slavery, that an is not the guru. That man may have charisma, may have magnetic power — maybe his great intelligence, his physical beauty, or his sheer vitality pulls you — but you will be going away from yourself. It will be an infatuation. You will be obsessed with this man, and you will be off your center. Avoid such people; these are the greatest mischief-mongers in the world. Adolf Hitler, Napoleon, Alexander — these are the people who have created great havoc, because people feel tremendously attracted and people feel like surrendering.

Remember, if your surrendering gives you freedom, then the man is a guru, a Master. If your surrendering makes you a slave, makes you a robot — as all the followers of Adolf Hitler were turned into mechanical robots…. They lost their souls; he simply exploited their souls. They lost all their awareness. This happens in the spiritual world also, because these charismatic people are everywhere. So make it a criterion inside: if by the presence of your guru, of your Master, you are becoming freer and freer, more and more independent; by surrendering, the paradox is happening — that by surrendering you are gaining more willpower, by surrendering you are becoming powerful not impotent — then you are near the guru.

The guru is one who pulls you towards himself just to throw you back into your own being. He functions as a mediator; via the guru, you arrive at your own self. Because you cannot go directly, he helps you via him. But his whole effort is to make you yourself.

[blazed]

7 hours ago, Solace said:

There is 7 billion of these anti-gurus. They must be eliminated, lol. Anything popular in society is the biggest anti guru such as mainstream media and big corporations like McDonald's I believe.

Nonsense,  whilst these cooperations are unhealthy and unproductive they exist due to demand,  all business is about supply and demand. Without demand businesses die out.

Be thankful that you have the option to use McDonald's whenever you please rather than being forced to eat salads by the government and law.

Like how psychadelics and drugs are banned because the goverment thinks its helping society by doing so, because if they don't they get backlash from society when things go wrong on drugs, such as stupid teens overdosing and jumping off buildings, etc. Just the same way people where screaming down the goverment's neck when Osho's spiritual community came to take over Oregon in the US.

Remember there are more balanced peoples using these services for example when I see fast food joints in the UK, 80% or more of the people aren't actually overweight, but regular to skinny.

For example there are more people who watch movies or play games for a couple hours a night as opposed to complete addicts who spends 8+ hours.

You have more freedom now than any of our ancestors.

Everyone likes to blame anything else besides themselves,  the only one in their way is themselves.

If you're fat and unhealthy it's not McDonald's fault it's your own fault for the lack of discipline and self control.

And if you investigate it further it's no one's fault,  just reality happening, experiencing another scenario in Infinity.

Can't have Infinity without all sorts of people in all sorts of situations.

Remember you didn't stumble onto spirituality, reality bought spirituality into your experience.

The same way If a meteor decided to hit the planet and wipe us out that would just be reality happening without our consent.

Or lets just say the sun exploding or a black hole absorbing us, because people will start to make concepts about how humans can destroy a meteor from hitting the planet and therefore have control lol.

Edited May 10, 2018 by blazed

[Preetom]

@WindInTheLeaf

If you start reading Jed Mckenna books, you'll start to see that most of the 'spiritual' gurus are anti-guru. In fact they are like the last wall which you'll never pass and get enlightened 

[Metody]

What about U.G. Krirshnamurti ? He was of the famous anti-guru ever exist ?

He always said that life is about survive in every situation and FUCK ! and all this spiritual teaching is total bullshit and he had very interesting points of view. 

 

[Toby]

15 minutes ago, Metody said:

What about U.G. Krirshnamurti ? He was of the famous anti-guru

was exactly what I thought about as well when reading the thread title.

[Highest]

A guru is a liberated being, which requires evolution and the death of the Self. Mankind cannot do this alone, they are controlled by the body-mind and ego-mind, they can never be liberated without the help of a master. The whole world is anti-guru because it is pro ego, especially the west. And thus the world will continue to suffer, only mass self-realization with the help of masters can evolve mankind.

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

@Nahm Wouldn't that depend on your ability to see through their disguise? If someone encounters one at an early stage of their spiritual journey, and the 'anti-guru' is a master, how would they be able to tell whether he/she is a guide or the opposite? How would you test them?

It is obvious. Maybe read what you just wrote. You might see you’re over thinking this.

[Faceless]

4 hours ago, Highest said:

they can never be liberated without the help of a master.

Not true.

Some people rely on others, some don’t. Depends of the degree in which one is able to  look to themselves to solve problems. 

 

 

[Nahm]

The Guru is not the territory. 

[Faceless]

If one is true to one's inner self, and follows its wisdom, who is without a teacher?

Zhuangzi