question about concentration practice

[electroBeam]

When practicing concentration, say looking at the hand of a watch or clock rotate, is the objective to focus on the hand of the clock with 0 thoughts in mind? Or can there be subtle thoughts in the background of your mind, and that's ok as long as you still have the hand of the clock in mind.

[Faceless]

Well if the goal is concentration I would say thought would be inevitable. 

16 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

is the objective to focus on the hand of the clock with 0 thoughts in mind?

When your using concentration in general that is a movement of thought. Concentration  implies thought. 

So you should be fine

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

One way, according to the Buddha, is to practice concentration with the help of the natural breath. You practice concentration by observation.

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, cirkussmile said:

One way, according to the Buddha, is to practice concentration with the help of the natural breath. You practice concentration by observation.

Why does one want to apply a concentration practice? 

To cultivate a skill right? 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

Just now, Faceless said:

Why does one want to apply a concentration practice? 

The concentration of the mind is important to be able to observe the reality within. To get direct experience of the changing phenomena inside and eventually drop attachment to all impermanence. 

For me, this has been crucial because it's not only intellectual understanding, it's experiential. For some people, mastery over the mind is highly valued and for that they need concentration.

Much love

 

 

 

[Faceless]

Example when I use to train a lot in martial arts I applied focused concentration. I also used concentration/meditation before and after training. 

In this there is i employ the concentrater and the concentrated. Take advantage of the dualistic mind. Using the ego as a tool. 

 

 

 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, cirkussmile said:

For some people, mastery over the mind is highly valued and for that they need concentration.

Much love

They employ mind to end the movement of mind? 

[Faceless]

You mean just quiet it temporarily right? 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

6 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Example when I use to train a lot in martial arts I applied focused concentration. I also used concentration/meditation before and after training. 

In this there is i employ the concentrater and the concentrated. Take advantage of the dualistic mind. Using the ego as a tool. 

 

 

 

2

In your example, you are using concentration in doing something. It's like a cat watching a mouse hole. The cat has full of concentration but he is not concentrated on the reality within. His concentration is not directed towards self-realization. A pocket thief is very concentrated in the action of stealing. But still, he doesn't use the concentration towards the reality as it is.

When practicing meditation that aims for liberation, it is important what kind of concentration we are using. When meditation is done with this understanding there is no longer a meditator doing meditation. 

 

The mind is a great server but a poor master. Concentration, mastery over the mind and direct experience is great to generate wisdom about the changing phenomena throughout the universe. With this wisdom, liberation and free from attachments can manifest itself. There are many ways but this is why people do the practice of concentration.
 

May all beings be happy
May all beings be liberated

[Faceless]

@cirkussmile

thanks for the reply

 

Thats very interesting. To employ time and a means to end time.

For me This timelessness comes to be with the cessation of all movements of thought which opens a window for the immeasurable “unnameable is” to flow in. 

Very interesting though man. I appreciate your sharing??

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@cirkussmile

 

For me This timelessness comes to be with the cessation of all movements of thought which opens a window for the immeasurable “unnameable is” to flow in. 

1

That's another way to say it! I like it.

That seems to happen to some people who practice meditation focused on liberation. No one knows how many ways there are to the timeless. But until we get there we are stuck in time

Much love

[Faceless]

@cirkussmile ??

Time is beautiful to. Art of living is all about the harmony between time/timeless right.

 

[cirkussmile]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@cirkussmile

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@cirkussmile

[Prabhaker]

52 minutes ago, cirkussmile said:

For some people, mastery over the mind is highly valued and for that they need concentration.

Concentration of the mind is a need in order to survive. As life exists, it is needed, but it is not enough. 

The moment you narrow the mind you become particularly conscious of one thing and simultaneously unconscious of so many other things.

Concentration is not meditation. To exist in the material world concentration is a necessity.

Once meditation is attained, concentration is child's play. Look at a child who is absorbed in his play: he has a concentration without any effort.

[cirkussmile]

4 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@cirkussmile ??

Time is beautiful to. Art of living is all about the harmony between time/timeless right.

 

We all have different experiences but to me they are the same ?

[cirkussmile]

6 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Concentration of the mind is a need in order to survive. As life exists, it is needed, but it is not enough. 

The moment you narrow the mind you become particularly conscious of one thing and simultaneously unconscious of so many other things.

Concentration is not meditation. To exist in the material world concentration is a necessity.

Once meditation is attained, concentration is child's play. Look at a child who is absorbed in his play: he has a concentration without any effort.

As I said earlier, concentration and observation of the constant change that goes on within will lead to detachment from oneself and the world. 

If people do it other ways that's very good also ?

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, cirkussmile said:

One way, according to the Buddha, is to practice concentration with the help of the natural breath. You practice concentration by observation.

thanks for the reply cirkussmile, but I was speaking about a concentration practice more like raja yoga, not zazen.

[electroBeam]

30 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

Concentration of the mind is a need in order to survive. As life exists, it is needed, but it is not enough. 

The moment you narrow the mind you become particularly conscious of one thing and simultaneously unconscious of so many other things.

Concentration is not meditation. To exist in the material world concentration is a necessity.

Once meditation is attained, concentration is child's play. Look at a child who is absorbed in his play: he has a concentration without any effort.

concentration is not meditation, but its an important stepping stone for meditation on the jnana path. You can't achieve proper self inquiry without the ability of very very intense concentration.

[Torkys]

If you concentrate intensely enough, even the subtle thoughts dissappear. And if you can, why not develop concentration to that degree? 

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Torkys said:

If you concentrate intensely enough, even the subtle thoughts dissappear. And if you can, why not develop concentration to that degree?

Through concentration, great powers are developed, you will become a specialist, you will become an expert but that ultimate relaxation we are seeking, does not happen. Your powers increase, but not your bliss. Concentration doesn't give relaxation from tension, but instead it will make you even more tense, you will be tired of it sooner or later. 

Concentration is not awareness, and the person of concentration will never show compassion. Concentration is of the mind, in concentration you focus on one thing and you forget everything else. meditation is of consciousness.