Is having children ethically wrong?

[Applejuice]

So I've been really contemplating wether I should reproduce. I mean It is essentially bringing in more delusional beings into this world that will fuck shit up, go through suffering, hurt others, do evil( taking you away from ultimate reality) acts like eating, sex, socialization , become depressed, and that are stuck in hell ( duality ). I think if there is no life there is no hell, no suffering there is just god/ heaven . And this prevents us from having to reach enlightenment and going through hardship, so should we stop reproducing? I know this sounds counter intuitive as all the ego does is help us stay alive and reproduce, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that idea that I need to reproduce or need to have kids is just unnesecary and will do more harm than good. Any thoughts?

 

[zoey101]

It's all about how you raise them  

Raise them to be loving, and they will love. Raise them to hurt others, and they will hurt.

You can't let all those stresses and fears run your life. Everything you are learning and growing in, can be passed down. They will become what you show and teach them

Hope that's helpful!

[ajasatya]

if you have kids and build a family that's based on the human virtues, you're actually doing good to the planet, because your children will repeat what you practice (children see, children do).

[eskwire]

I am fairly certain I won't have children, in part due to my ethics, but mostly due to a lack of preparedness and the complete/utter lack of reassurance that it's worth it. 

In utilitatian terms, it's unethical to have kids because fewer humans (your children) are sucking up your resources (time and energy) that could be used in work that helps many people. Fewer humans are receiving benefit.

There are, however, many ways to consider this issue.

Maybe you wouldn't be the one who helped a lot of humans - maybe your child would. In the utilitarian worldview, more people would benefit from you having children, which would be ethical.

The latter example is what most people bank on. "I am a good person who learned a lot of lessons and my children are therefore gonna be GREAT and make the world a better place."

This is problematic. Firstly, because you are living vicariously through your children, and that's unhealthy.

Secondly, your kids could turn out to be scum sucking assholes regardless. The world runs on probabilities.

So. Up to you. 

[Jamie Universe]

@Applejuice It sounds like by your logic, we should just kill ourselves since we will be put into a non-duality state of being. 

Maybe you should adjust your plan slightly, instead of having children, adopt one. This way, you can forget about the ethical part of it, since that child already exists and your already helping it, and also if you have a desire for a child, this fixes it. Plus not also to mention over-population.

[Nahm]

@Applejuice Doesn’t strike me as a good time for you to start a family, no. 

[pluto]

Unless both parents are awakened and live in harmony it wouldn't be wise.

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, ajasatya said:

if you have kids and build a family that's based on the human virtues, you're actually doing good to the planet, because your children will repeat what you practice (children see, children do).

So true. 

[RichardY]

I disagree. Get pumping. Go nutts!

1) Maybe if raised "well", children can contribute to the environment. Plant trees, get some wood?(much of Europe was deforested, some of it only to be replanted with pine), develop technology. Colonise even the very depths of the occean, space and the earth.

2) What does a human need? Cleanliness, Food, Water and grudgingly Social contact. I'd say heat as well, though the penguins seem to manage. 

3) No children = Biological (Life Purpose) failure, 500 Million years of evolution ended.

4) Odds of Enlightenment, miniscule, MINISCULE!!!.(National Lottery Odds, probably Han Solo). Brood of offspring to comfort you in old age, much more likely.  

5) Caring for another's children is little better than caring for pets. They're not yours and any traits, acknowledgement and temperment will vary more widely.

6) Any population crisis in the absence of a settled enlightened populace could be resolved, with only mass bloodshed and suffering. Purge Style and then only more in the cities.

7) Ever see the movie "Species" Well yeah, that should be your goal, in the absence of course of any self defined goal.

[zoey101]

19 hours ago, Jamie Universe said:

@Applejuice It sounds like by your logic, we should just kill ourselves since we will be put into a non-duality state of being. 

Maybe you should adjust your plan slightly, instead of having children, adopt one. This way, you can forget about the ethical part of it, since that child already exists and your already helping it, and also if you have a desire for a child, this fixes it. Plus not also to mention over-population.

Agreed  Adoption is such a beautiful thing to do for a child (if you are in the position to do it)

 

[Applejuice]

@Jamie Universe That's exactly what im saying lol 

And yeah I think I will adopt children. @zoey101  Haha it sounds harsh but I think it's true, it brings in people into the world who have a bad foundation and just like a building a lot of the time it collapses, this could be suicide, alcoholism, whatever or you can rebuild the foundation, but this is extremely hard to do. I think my parents shouldn't have made me. No offense to my parents but they aren't actualized human beings in the slightest, no direction, fatalistic, working class mindset, addiction, close minded. And then that has left me to figure my whole life out from scratch without any good real life role models. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I think all humans deserve a good start.

[d0ornokey]

I think it's wrong if you're not stable enough to have them but those people don't know any better so

[WildeChilde]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:37 PM, Applejuice said:

So I've been really contemplating wether I should reproduce. I mean It is essentially bringing in more delusional beings into this world that will fuck shit up, go through suffering, hurt others, do evil( taking you away from ultimate reality) acts like eating, sex, socialization , become depressed, and that are stuck in hell ( duality ). I think if there is no life there is no hell, no suffering there is just god/ heaven . And this prevents us from having to reach enlightenment and going through hardship, so should we stop reproducing? I know this sounds counter intuitive as all the ego does is help us stay alive and reproduce, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced that idea that I need to reproduce or need to have kids is just unnesecary and will do more harm than good. Any thoughts?

 

@Applejuice For intelligent, conscientious people, my answer is yes; it is both ethical and necessary.  This trend has already started, but this is what is going to happen even more so in the future unless a  deliberate cultural shift takes place:

 

 

[Faceless]

If one understands what it takes to have an actual relationship with another than its great. 

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Faceless

[zoey101]

10 hours ago, Faceless said:

If one understands what it takes to have an actual relationship with another than its great. 

 

Exactly