A Universe from NOTHING?

[Maycol]

 

[Leo Gura]

It's not from nothing.

It IS nothing!

Important difference which is lost on the scientists.

The universe is as nothing today as it was 14 billion years ago. It's ALWAYS eternally nothing. It can never be anything but nothing. Nothing doesn't become something via time. Time itself is nothing.

[Maycol]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not from nothing.

It IS nothing!

Important difference which is lost on the scientists.

The universe is as nothing today as it was 14 billion years ago. It's ALWAYS eternally nothing. It can never be anything but nothing. Nothing doesn't become something via time. Time itself is nothing.

I love your answers, @Leo Gura, but I still can't understand it... What else can I do to understand this with the conviction that you have? I don't want to parrot other people's truth when it's not my true realization.

[InfinitePotential]

Really sit and contemplate how there could be something rather than nothing. There can't be. If you think about it, short of magic (which is itself something), there shouldn't be anything. What would be used to create it? What makes a "thing" exist? Is it nothing? Then nothing would have the quality of creating things and thus be something. What does it even mean to exist? According to whom does a thing exist? Where and when is everything? What holds everything together, and provides it with being and existence?

And yet, here we are, seemingly talking about something and nothing.

[Maycol]

6 minutes ago, InfinitePotential said:

Really sit and contemplate how there could be something rather than nothing. There can't be. If you think about it, short of magic (which is itself something), there shouldn't be anything. What would be used to create it? What makes a "thing" exist? Is it nothing? Then nothing would have the quality of creating things and thus be something. What does it even mean to exist? According to whom does a thing exist? Where and when is everything? What holds everything together, and provides it with being and existence?

And yet, here we are, seemingly talking about something and nothing.

Thank you very much @InfinitePotential for the explanation. I will deeply contemplate on it. Gives me hope that so many people get this.

[InfinitePotential]

1 minute ago, Maycol said:

Thank you very much @InfinitePotential for the explanation. I will deeply contemplate on it. Gives me hope that so many people get this.

No problem! I haven't yet realized it in the depths that Leo seems to (have just watched about first 20 minutes of Hawaii mindfuck video so far... Lmao damn this 5 meo sounds nuts) as well as sages enlightened masters etc, but I've definitely had some brief glimpses of nothingness / void, maybe. And my intuition is telling me there is definitely something there. Or rather, nothing.

 

Problem is, it's scary. But I believe if you can get past that it is infinitely peaceful and fulfilling, and is home.

[Faceless]

It’s a lot more simple than you think. Problem usualy arises because their are assumptions/conclusions that are made when people contemplate. If your were to end all presumptions it would be a lot easier to understand. 

 

[Faceless]

Quiet mind a necessity. Headlessness is the ticket. Then it’s all clear. 

[InfinitePotential]

16 minutes ago, Faceless said:

It’s a lot more simple than you think. Problem usualy arises because their are assumptions/conclusions that are made when people contemplate. If your were to end all presumptions it would be a lot easier to understand. 

 

Agreed (despite recommending contemplation of it -- which can help get a logical mind interested).

Ultimately one must empty their mind and let go of all effort and striving.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, InfinitePotential said:

Agreed (despite recommending contemplation of it -- which can help get a logical mind interested).

Ultimately one must empty their mind and let go of all effort and striving.

Yeah?

I have been talking about effort and striving to others but most people don’t seem to take an interest in that. So I just decided to use contemplation lol. At least if they contimplate they will see for themselves that is not possible. Because to one who is bound by effort/striving they dont even know what im taking about. ?

I think that must be seen for oneself. Like a trial and error. And then all of a sudden one day maybe it will just click. Idk 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

There is no way to get it short of enlightenment. This is the heart of enlightenment. Your mind cannot create a "sneak peak" of enlightenment. A genuine nondual experience is necessary.

Also, thinking about nothingness will not get you to Nothingness. "Figuring it out" will not work. I tried that for several years and I wasn't even close. You are not going to think your way into enlightenment.

[Faceless]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no way to get it short of enlightenment. This is the heart of enlightenment. Your mind cannot create a "sneak peak" of enlightenment. A genuine nondual experience is necessary.

Also, thinking about nothingness will not get you to Nothingness. "Figuring it out" will not work. I tried that for several years and I wasn't even close. You are not going to think your way into enlightenment.

Although it doesn’t have to take many years. Think it just depends on a series of circumstances. 

[Faceless]

To me it has nothing to do with thinking at all. Actually the opposite. When thought stops. I mean actualy stops, their it is. So simple. 

Its hard to explain to people that thought/effort/volition must end to. They don’t seem to see how important it is. For me it seems to be the only way for thought to have a stop. 

This is actually the most simple thing to do. To reside in the immeasurable is simple, perhaps to simple.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Faceless

[Bobby]

If matter is in space, where is space itself?

nowhere

[egoless]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It IS nothing!

Haha they won’t understand it... until they experience it. They think of nothing as if it was blank space, black screen. Contemporary traditional meaning of nothing.

But Leo...

Edited April 28, 2018 by egoless

[Maycol]

39 minutes ago, egoless said:

Haha they won’t understand it... until they experience it. They think of nothing as if it was blank space, black screen. Contemporary traditional meaning of nothing.

That's so cool that at least a group of super human beings like you all here who gets enlightened and understands that all this is nothing... yay!

[egoless]

20 minutes ago, Maycol said:

That's so cool that at least a group of super human beings like you all here who gets enlightened and understands that all this is nothing... yay!

Don’t get mad at me bro  Didn’t mean it. I just infered that it is not understandable with thinking or even feeling. 

Thosr are the mistakes all of us made at some point. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

Hehe superhuman beings. 

It has nothing to do with being enlightened. To me it’s so natural and obvious. It’s strange how we make enlightenment some end goal or something. Like the ultimate achievement. 

When you are not it is. That simple. Nothingness is only difficult to the knower/known.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Faceless

[cirkussmile]

It's not nothing! Because it is something!!!

Something unknown and indescribable. 

[InfinitePotential]

If I can think about nothingness a bit more and reason my way into it... First book (I think) on the enlightenment section goes on to talk about how everything is Nothingness.

For example, an apple is Nothingness. If Nothingness were somehow different from an apple then it would have that quality and be that which is different from an apple.

Clearly, True Nothingness is not a blank state, empty space, non-existence, or anything that can be captured by a word, including Nothingness. I.e. there is a truth which is incommunicable and Nothingness is merely a pointer, albeit a favorite of mine.

Additionally, clearly there is "something"... I mean here we are. I have difficulty reconciling this with my thoughts that there should be nothing (blank state, non existence, conventional nothing). This makes me think (sorry for thinking) that true Nothingness must be identical to Absolute Infinity. All that can be "imagined", any possible object of awareness, exists in potential.

Okay I'm gonna go forget all this and let go of and transcend all concepts for a while.