Time and it’s relationship to the timeless

[Faceless]

Is their a relationship at all???

Knowing implies an opportunity for invention. Novelty implies actual creativity, that which is totally new. 

Knowing helps in practical/functional affairs. To respond to and predict/anticipate, and respond to challenges in our environment. 

Novelty is a seeing that the known can never be creative. Seeing that the known determines the validity of one thing and then another. Novelty implies creativity which implies something totally new. Knowing can never be ‘new’ as knowing is dependent on the old. Knowing is  dependent on the evolution of memory, knowledge, experience which is the stream of thought. 

So the difference between knowing and novelty is knowing is a static movement. Each movement of knowing is born out of another static movement. Static being old, dead, a frozen thought of time. Thought is always old and never new. So thought which implies  ‘knowing/the known’ can never be creative. Novelty on the other hand is not born of thought ‘memory, knowledge, and experience.’ Novelty is dynamic ‘active and alive.’ Novitly is not influenced by thought ‘the known.’ 

When it comes to the necessity of freedom from time the known, which is the knower, prevents all novelty from becoming actual. If their is the knower their is no novilty ‘creativity.’ Any action influenced by the known which is ‘static’ will only lead to invention which is born of thought. So at that point the knower/known are bound by the static nature of time. Freedom from the known implies that each moment can be looked upon with fresh eyes. It is a creative movement not determined by any past movements of thought ‘memory, knowledge, and experience.’ To look upon ‘the now’ which is a dynamic movement with that of ‘the know’ is to attempt to capture a dynamic movement with a static movement. This is an impossibility. A static movement will interfere/alter a dynamic movement to its own static impressions. So when we look upon the now with the influence of the past we impose that static movement onto the present ‘Dynamic.’ If their is an ending of the static ‘time’ then that new, active, and dynamic moment of now can be observed free of the accumulation of the knower/known. Then their is just observation without the observer ‘knower.’ This is a truly creative movement. This is timelessness. In my experience/non experiencing this is the closest one can get to “wholeness” 

To actually tap into Wholness their can not be the influence of that which is static. Wholeness is active, alive, and dynamic. In order for that to come into being the static must end. Timeless is dynamic and time is static. 

 

To me to identify movements of time in our own experience leads to a silent, clear, and orderly mind. If any one happens to be interested in this please post below anything you see as a movement of time ‘thought’ ?

What are some movements of time? Can anyone give any example of a such a movement? 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Faceless

[who chit]

The movement of attention.

[Joseph Maynor]

Change seems to be more fundamental than time.  Time is a metric or theory that we apply to change.  Because Awareness never changes, change is part of the Dream.  Thus, time is a construct, a family of related paradigms that are laid on top of change in contexts by us.  Time is not part of reality.  Time is a thought about reality.  

Here's a question for you.  Is change a thought about reality?  Or is change something that we're aware of empirically prior to thinking?  It seems as though we have a pre-conceptual awareness of change to me.  Do you need the concept of change to perceive change?  And even if you couldn't conceptualize change, does that mean that the phenomena of change is absent from Awareness?  Take a newborn baby for example.  I don't know if that works -- but does a newborn baby have a sense of change or it all one static thing?  What about a baby that just came out?  Can that baby perceive change?  Is change part of that baby's awareness?  It seems as though we would want to say that that baby does perceive change -- but not time.  So, change does not appear to be merely a concept fundamentally.  Awareness of change appears to be pre-conceptual.  Time is a family of concepts that we add later.  One must come to learn a concept of time later.  Time is cultural whereas change is not.  Does a dog experience change?  How about a housefly?  Does a housefly experience change?  Does a dog experience time?  What about the housefly?

Edited April 25, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Nahm]

@Faceless Are the implications projection? 

[Faceless]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Faceless Are the implications projection? 

Of time? Sure?

 

[Nahm]

@Faceless and subjective?

[Faceless]

26 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Change seems to be more fundamental than time.  Time is a metric or theory that we apply to change.  Because Awareness never changes, change is part of the Dream.  Thus, time is a construct, a family of related paradigms that are laid on top of change in contexts by us.  Time is not part of reality.  Time is a thought about reality.  

?

But is awareness static or dynamic? 

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Faceless and subjective?

Sure?

but collectively subjective

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

?

But is awareness static or dynamic? 

Awareness never changes.  That's my current view.  I had this insight on psychedelics.  All the change that happens is aware of, but awareness itself never falters.  It never changes.  Even when you do 5MeO DMT, Awareness is still there is it not?  I've never done 5MeO DMT.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Awareness never changes.  That's my current view.

?

So awareness is static as you see it currently? 

Do you see thought as a static or dynamic movement ? 

Keep in mind that illusion/dream is static in its very nature. If that makes it clearer. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

The least amount of words will make this easier to discuss. If you are wondering my responses are so short ?

dynamic being new 

static being old 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Where’s @cetus56 on this?

[Faceless]

55 minutes ago, who chit said:

The movement of attention.

The way I view attention may be different then your meaning. My meaning of attention implies a dynamic movement. Attention in my non experiencing implies total attention without a static interpretation of the perceiver. The way I precieve a static movement would be concentration. As when one uses concentration their is a movement of volition which implies thought ‘time’ 

If you are going off of dictionary meaning you may associate concentration and attention as the same meaning but different word used. 

In that case that resonates very well to me?

Edited April 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@cetus56‘s 

Portal of light is related to this. 

[who chit]

 

Quote

My meaning of attention implies a dynamic movement.
As when one uses concentration their is a movement of volition which implies thought ‘time’ 

Yes. Same here. To concentrate would require a movement or contraction/narrowing of awareness towards an object (thought).

Edited April 25, 2018 by who chit

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, who chit said:

 

Yes. Same here. To concentrate would require a movement or contraction/narrowing of awareness towards an object.

Yeah I see that ?

narrowing movement of will/contraction implies a movement of time/thought

Edited April 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Getting angry and reacting to being caught in a traffic jam is a movement of time. Hehe

And getting angry and reacting verbally to screaming baby is also a movement of time lol

Edited April 25, 2018 by Faceless

[who chit]

If time is a concept/idea of the mind and doesn't truly exist in reality unless it is believed to be true/real,then relationship would require one to believe that time does exist first. This would imply that belief itself is a movement of time,no?

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, who chit said:

This would imply that belief itself is a movement of time,no?

Yeah belief is a movement of fear. Fear is a movement of thought/time

[Faceless]

Awareness includes both the dynamic and  static. Without awareness their can not be one without the other and vice versa. As in yin yang and so on. 

 

Does that make sense?