Nothing ever comes up

[aurum]

6 hours ago, Timothy said:

Fair, but have you ever considered what it would be like to be free from sexual desire? Sounds silly I know. I've experienced first hand glimpses of this myself (usually after a really good masturbation session, or when I am completely awe struck by a view of nature, or a tear gushing-ly beautiful dream I had). And I can honestly tell you, I genuinely want to be free of my sexual desire. Why? Because It feels amazing. I'm not bullshitting here, I would go as far to say that you are missing out on this feeling. Living life without cravings or a need for a woman is such an amazing feeling, far greater than the short term fulfillment of getting it in with a hot girl by a long-shot...

Yes I have had many experiences like this where I'm just blown away by the Love. It is beautiful beyond description.

Never once has it made me not want to still have sex.

Sex is a beautiful thing as well. It doesn't just have to be this needy, ego rampage like what you're describing. You can bring Love into it.

6 hours ago, Timothy said:

I'm not against sex nor do I suppress my sexual desire. I masturbate very often and check out tons of girls

If you're checking out girls from afar and masturbating, what you really want is real sex. The only reason you wouldn't be doing that is if you felt like you couldn't.

6 hours ago, Timothy said:

But that being said, I know within myself that this desire is corrupt and doesn't serve my goal of universal love and compassion. The sex drive is very selective. You most likely wont talk to a fat girl the same way you would talk to a hot girl. Where's the compassion there?

Did you call an Uber today instead of a taxi cab? Some taxi cab driver really needed that money and you didn't select his services. Did you go to a grocery store? Some family that runs a roadside stand in South America probably needed that money a lot more. Are you friends with 7 billion people on the planet simultaneously and spend equal amounts of time with all of them? And I hope you didn't start a business, because your business cannot equally serve all 7 billion people either.

You have to understand that part of life IS about being selective. The fact that ultimately we are all One is just a side of the equation.

The other side is celebrating and loving our differences. Our individual dharma or unique roles that we have to play.

You're allowed to have standards and boundaries.

Yes, that means some people are compatible with others and some people aren't. Some people will like you, and some people will not. Some people will want to fuck a fat girl, some people will not.

None of that is "bad". In fact I'd argue it's just an egoic desire for approval that we want everyone to like us.

6 hours ago, Timothy said:

Well I would totally agree with these guys. I think myopia is the problem here. I have a vision of what I want. I want my heart to be melted by shear and utter beauty and to feel love for everyone and everything... so glad that this is a genuine possibility, and not just a fantasy! And oh boy... when I connect with this feeling... I am utterly ravished by love, and my desire for sex, validation and power are gone. and good riddance.

Again, these things are not mutually exclusive.

[aurum]

6 hours ago, Toby said:

@aurum question: have you ever had a look into the Enneagram? If so, are you an Enneagram type 7, sexual subtype? (If you haven't: the Enneagram is a very good mirror / map to show a person their potential but also their unconscious patterns)
I'm asking because what you wrote sounds exactly like that type and unfortunately that would be exactly the unconscious patterns running imo.

Yes I have. No I'm not.

[aurum]

Good, now we're getting somewhere.

Girls are not these fragile innocent angels that you believe them to be. I've seen all kinds of shit over the years, including things like girls dragging me into a bathroom to fuck them after only knowing them for a few minutes, girls cheating on their boyfriend / husband at the drop of their hat, girls who want to be choked and whipped, girls who want to fuck multiple guys at once, girls who want to fuck you in the ass with a strap-on, girls who want to pee on you, girls who want you to pee on them, girls who will lie straight to your face and manipulate you, girls who will hit you, girls who want to fuck other girls with you, girls who will fuck you because you fucked their friends, girls who fuck will fuck you for revenge on their ex and so on and so forth.

You don't know this because you lack experience will girls. And so all you know about them is what your conditioning and biology is telling you, i.e that girls are fragile little angels.

The other reason is that women aren't going to exhibit the same type of behavior for a guy like you as they will for me. And so you're literally blind to how women act a lot of the time.

1 hour ago, Timothy said:

Plus I know I'm not this cool, strong, domiant guy. I'm actually very insecure and fragile, soft and compassionate deep down so it's just very hard for me to imagine having sex from that place

And now we hit to the real core of the problem. You nailed it.

Of course when you don't feel like you're that guy, you feel like you're taking something from the girl. You think her having sex with you would be a negative for her and that you don't deserve it, and so you self-sabotage the whole thing.

But here's the mindfuck of mindfucks. The only reason you aren't already that guy is be you think that you aren't.

What does it mean to be "cool"? "Cool" is just someone who completely accepts themselves.

You not accepting yourself is what largely makes you the guy that girls don't want to fuck.

And here's how we tie it back into why I believe spiritual work goes well with pickup.

How do you start to see yourself as that "cool" guy? A combination of going out and getting experiences that prove to you that you can be that guy, AND learning to love yourself through your spiritual practice / therapy / healing work.

That's it. That's the whole formula.

I never think I'm taking anything from any girl I have sex with. I know she's going to have an amazing experience, and even if she doesn't, I know my intention was positive. And so I don't hold myself back.

[Toby]

6 hours ago, aurum said:

Yes I have. No I'm not.

Ok, nevermind. My impression was some kind of counterphobic head/fear type like a 7 or sexual 6. Wasn't meant as an "attack" or something either because I actually am a sexual head/fear type and know first hand the worldview and limitations of it.

[aurum]

@Timothy

Look, you're free to do whatever you want because it's your life. I'm not trying to push my agenda on you that you should do pickup if you really don't think it's right for you. But I am just going to lay out the raw truth as much as I see it.

Self-actualization and growth implies one thing and one thing only: behavior change.

If who you feel you are and your behaviors aren't changing, you're not doing self-actualization.

The fact that going out to a nightclub maybe feels uncomfortable for you isn't a sign that it's "inauthentic". It's just a sign that you're stretching your comfort zone. That's what is supposed to happen.

What really is "authentic" anyway? If who you feel you are and your behaviors are just the product of your social conditioning, why is that authentic? Because someone else told you that's who you are and you just believed it?

You should be willing to change anything about yourself at any time. Otherwise you're still heavily ego-identified.

The more you go out, the more it will feel natural. The more you will be able to add authentic fun and not just seek attention. The more you actually will be "cool". It's not just going to happen staying in your room.

And that doesn't mean you can't do therapy, meditate or whatever else you want to do. I would suggest doing both and looking at them as synergistic instead of combative.

9 hours ago, Timothy said:

 not compensate for it like most guys are doing with pickup.

You mean guys actually pushing themselves. Guys who are actually growing.

Look at how that judgment is an easy excuse for you not to face your own insecurities.

[Arkandeus]

@Timothy

screw the nightclubs, when I was doing pickup I did it during the day

I mean if you're not comfortable in nightclubs daytime is just as good, everyone has their environments, there are clothing stores, libraries, coffee places, plenty of daytime places

IF you want to do pickup, and its fine not to , as I said I stopped, I'd say do it like this

go to a busy parc, say hello to a girl, leave her

this is the sort of stuff you take it easy with

you can't put this pressure on yourself that you're supposed to seduce this girl , be this don juan,when you have insecurity and inexperience

start with basics, saying hello to a girl, saying hi, thats how I did it, no more, nothing more

start by being you, a guy that wants to be comfortable talking to a girl he doesnt know

when you finally feel how easy it is to say hi, and how it is your Right, to say something to any women you see, to talk to women

you will then automatically try to take things further, this happens naturally

it starts by saying hi

don't even make it hard, one hi to a girl a week, you can take your time

Edited April 28, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Arkandeus]

2 minutes ago, Timothy said:

@aurum

I'm actually doing heavy work on facing my insecurities, going out to clubs, bars, malls, parties are actually a great way to trigger them. I've gone out many times for the purpose of experiencing them and contemplating them in high density situations and areas, lately they've been surfacing so much so I've just been avoiding those places and seeing therapists, doing dyads and solo contemplations etc.

I'm dealing with a particular issue that's been dominating me for a long time now. Once I get to the bottom of it, I'll let you know what has changed.

@Arkandeus

Yeah I like your soft and easy going approach, unfortunately I'm not interested in that or talking to girls right now. I'm doing work on a particular issue that is almost ready to work itself out, then I'll see what desires and motives are still present and contemplate them.

yeah you follow your instincts, besides its not like pickup is the only way to find love, life is infinite