Nothing ever comes up

[MM1988]

I'm this boring average emotionless guy. I'm always slightly depressed, slightly low confidence, never really had a girlfriend or a sex life. I just go to work sit on my desk, at weekends I drink at a bar and thats my life. I never had any big trauma in my life that made me that way. I just cant grasp myself, who I am as a human. Ive been meditating daily for a year now, did psychedelics, breathwork. I thought something might come up that gives me an understanding of who I am, some emotional trauma, why Im depressed, cant attract women, why I am like I am and how I could start to finally live my life. But I never had anything happen, during meditation I feel nothing but a slight depressed state, even on LSD I felt altered but no relavations or anything, just my usual thoughts going on. Its as if nobody is there behind my eyes. I have no idea what kind of person I am and why. I started this whole spirituality thing over a year ago and sometimes I feel nothing changed, I see no upwards trend. Anybody else feel like this?What could I try to speed up my personal development?

Edited April 24, 2018 by MM1988

[Nathan]

Well I guess it'll just happen when it happens, don't take it too seriously and be attached to results else you're just constantly anticipating the future. Perhaps that's just me attempting to avoid the work though, who knows. 

[Ananta]

Perhaps try reading Eckhart Tolle. His first book was "Power of Now", second book "A New Earth". I know several people that had big insights with these books, including myself. Of course I read them many years ago, but if you haven't read them, they are timeless.

[Arkandeus]

 

first you become increasingly sensible to your desires, to your real dreams, you become sensible to the life you really want to live, which means you're getting in touch with your divine vibration

this means that you feel a huge gap between that life and where you are now,you become conscious of how much your current life might be missing, you have to bear with this discomfort

it will grow more and more discomfortable till it becomes easier to actually do something about it then to keep things like they are

that is the gift of discomfort,let it grow

 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Anna1 said:

Perhaps try reading Eckhart Tolle. His first book was "Power of Now", second book "A New Earth". I know several people that had big insights with these books, including myself. Of course I read them many years ago, but if you haven't read them, they are timeless.

I never read that book or any book for that matter. But Eckhart Tolle gets into psychological time which is possibly the most direct way to end and prevent all psychological conflict and suffering. 

I definitely recommend the understanding of psychological time to all. 

Then the door opens all enjoyment and fulfillment of life. To me ‘spirituality’ is not about personal development. It’s more of the opposite. To me it’s more about the persona’s undevelopment. 

Psychological development which implies measure/progression has no place. Only in practical matters like developing a skill, using that skill efficiently, Cultivating thought is a great form of development when applied as a functional tool. 

Psychologically personaly development is not necessary at all. To pursue personal development psychologically is seeking security in the illusion of time. If one seeks security psychologically that will most definitely lead to insecurity and disorder. 

 

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

that is the gift of discomfort,let it grow

 

Let it flower?

It will come into being and die on its own. 

That is letting the movement of volition come into being and pass away on its own. 

By not interrupting with the process it ‘volition/thought/self’ looses its continuity. 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Faceless

[Guest Quanty]

Break the cycle:

 

Ayurvedic, Yogic, Prana based foods, coffee, haritaki, raw cacao, chlorella, spirulina, ginger, turmeric... and the list is huge.

72 hours at least of sleep deprivation or until you let go of the mind completely. 

Before doing this, craft yourself and object (ideally made of pure/fine silver, maybe a mirror or a talisman). The purpose of the totem/object is to easily come back to a harmonious state after you lose your mind. Because you will have to literally lose your mind as an insane human being, why? because you have to reconsolidate the mind with the experience of going insane and come back. The object made of silver will help you 1000 times faster than doing it without. 

[Nahm]

@MM1988

What do you want?

What have you done so far towards it?

and could you afford to go to a seminar? 

 

[aurum]

7 hours ago, MM1988 said:

I thought something might come up that gives me an understanding of who I am, some emotional trauma, why Im depressed, cant attract women, why I am like I am and how I could start to finally live my life

This isn't what you want to hear, but you'll figure it out when you're ready.

Keep meditating, breathwork, yoga, psychedelics, etc. I can't remember if you've ever done pickup, but if you haven't you might want to consider it.

[Arkandeus]

2 hours ago, Timothy said:

@aurum I tend to disagree when someone offers the suggestion of doing pickup to resolve their issues. It can be great for some who are stable enough, but a lot of guys simply need to see a therapist, like myself. I quit pickup very early after doing more long retreats, and seeing how deep my issues really are and how much I was overcompensating socially, which buried my shadow even deeper. You seem to be heavily involved with it, I'm just curious how you are able to balance both spiritual work and pickup work. The pickup/club/partying domain fell away for me immediately with my spiritual work, so I'm genuinely curious on why you still do it and why you think it's beneficial for inner growth.

it fell away but it was a part of your experience, I have also done pickup in the past and those were the most intense moments of my life in terms of facing fear, I stopped it.

but that experience is a part of me now, 

it is not because something isn't sustainable on the long term that it doesn't hold benefit, that is the view of the earthly mind who's situated in time in the future instead of being here now

and its not because you stop doing something physically that you really stopped doing that,

many times after gaining insight, I go back to past events to relive them once more with a different point of view, when you really change, your past changes as well, the past is happening now as well, your past experiences growing with you as you do

Edited April 25, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Toby]

12 hours ago, MM1988 said:

What could I try to speed up my personal development?

I would look if a good teacher is accessible where you live. Or I would look if there is some meditation group where you live. This could help immensely because it invites you to go deeper than you probably could do alone, although you are the one who has to walk the path of course.

[molosku]

Like others suggested, read Tolle. Depression, anxiety, low confidence, confusion, sadness live and breathe psychological time. They can never be in the now. 

9 hours ago, Faceless said:

 To pursue personal development psychologically is seeking security in the illusion of time. If one seeks security psychologically that will most definitely lead to insecurity and disorder. 

Well said, could also replace "personal developement" with "happiness". If you make happiness a goal that is in the future, you begin a chase. Its right there with you at all times, the issue is how to realize it. Words are tricky, because my previous sentence will easily lead one to think "well what i need to do to realize it?" its the same paradox as "what i need to DO to be my true self" its a ridiculous question, but also an important one. 

The critical link is to tranform the "thinker of thoughts" to "perciever of thoughts". 

When you are unaware that you are actively identifying as the "thinker" suddenly your thought are very important and true and private, and that then transforms itself as your painbody, the subtle or not so subtle physical suffering you are experiencing. 

When you transform, and become more and more the "perciever" of thoughts, the inner talk loses its grip and importance and it becomes like the feeling of your breath: its there but its not hostile or friendly, its just there. Negativity cannot survive in the light consciousness. 

All this comes from personal experience, I once were in a very similar place as you describe yourself to be in. I trancended it by just being alone, watching my emotions and thoughts until my depression just gradually faded. It just did not hold power anymore, it just could not withstand being looked at so much. 

Ultimately what is to be done is to collapse the "perciever/percieved" dualism, but until then it helps very much to make that shift in persepctive. 

Read tolle!  If you already have, read it again!

Ps.  First find happiness in yourself, then focus on women if you want. If one happens to comes into your life before that, so be it.  

Edited April 25, 2018 by molosku

[Nahm]

@Timothy I have had that same curiosity for as long as I’m been on the forum. I assume I don’t get it because I have no direct experience with pick up. I’m sure the 2 resolve, but I don’t see how. 

[Arkandeus]

1 hour ago, Timothy said:

@Arkandeus of course pickup has benefits, but when doing deep spiritual work, I just dont see how it can be maintained as a practice. It's very surface level, dishonest and manupulaitve so I'm just trying to understand why people still do it when they also are committed to spirituality, which is almost the complete opposite of a pursuit. I simply questioned why I did pickup and found the deeper motives, so that behavior fell away quick. Now I'm trying to work out my overwhelming insecurity which was trying to be managed by my pickup and need for women. Plus the benefits of doing spiritual work is far greater than developing surface level social skills that are fake anyway, so I'm confused on why people still do it.

I completely agree, I'm done with pickup too, I mean that we did pickup for a reason, or we wouldn't have done it.

perhaps I was not very clear with my intentions in my post

I mean to say that there is value in doing pickup and discovering that pickup is not the way to go

there's value in a road that leads to nowhere

there's value in doing something that does not work out

perhaps seeing how unfitting it is to try to connect with women through pickup , you discovered things about yourself which allowed you to get where you are now

 

[aurum]

On 4/25/2018 at 1:21 AM, Timothy said:

You seem to be heavily involved with it, I'm just curious how you are able to balance both spiritual work and pickup work. The pickup/club/partying domain fell away for me immediately with my spiritual work, so I'm genuinely curious on why you still do it and why you think it's beneficial for inner growth.

It's a great question. Rant incoming.

To put what I'm going to say in context, I've done meditation retreats, breathwork ceremonies, psychedelics, reiki, yoga and spend around 3 hours everyday doing a formal spiritual practice. I also could have probably built a successful business or written a book in the amount of time I've put into pickup. So why am I doing it?

First off, my motivations have changed over the years. When I first started at 21, it was pure sex drive and ego-validation. I've also taken long periods of time off for spiritual work and to focus on myself, just like you suggested. But things are different now.

The easiest answer is that no matter how much I meditate, I've noticed that I still have a dick. And that dick wants to have sex. If I don't have a girlfriend (which you get through pickup) or if I aren't at least making an effort to get laid, I basically turn into the creepy guy trolling through Craigslist for sex.

Sometimes I read messages from guys that say they don't care about getting laid, they just want to get enlightened because sex won't fulfill them. I think that's insane.

By that same logic, you should also never eat, sleep, drink, clean your apartment, pay your bills, play music, read, have a life purpose or do anything because that won't fulfill you ether. Only Being can fulfill you. So let's just sit in our rooms with our eyes closed until we die.

And of course, the same guys who usually say this are the guys who wouldn't be successful at pickup even if they tried.

Another reason is that pickup is just so much god damn fun. Even when you have a terrible night and your ego is crying because it's not getting the validation it wants, it's still fun. Joking with your friends, meeting new people, singing, dancing, feminine energy, new adventurous situations, letting go of all concerns, blasting through challenges, drama when it doesn't go well and of course, sex. It's an awesome ride.

But at the end of the day, even a fun experience is just temporary. So the next question we have to ask is can pickup help with spiritual work and life purpose?

What I've found is that when done with the RIGHT INTENTION, it absolutely can.

Pickup will fuck with all of your ego's desires. The need for approval, the need for certainty, the need to think, the need to be right, the need to be logical, the need to conserve energy, the need to only see things from your perspective, etc. You basically need to be the exact opposite of all that.

So it trains my mind to think that way and it also helps motivates me to do my spiritual practice. If I go out and notice that I'm over thinking everything and looking for an outcome, that gives me leverage to meditate harder. If go out and I'm silky smooth, that's positive reinforcement that meditation is helping.

It also helps me with my life purpose. It makes me a better public speaker, a better communicator, better at networking, a better coach and just about everything else. The ancillary benefits are huge.

And here's maybe the coolest part.

I think a lot of us on this forum have had a lot of pain from negative social experiences growing up. Pickup is a way you can truly heal that. It will teach you to love people again.

Will everyone get these benefits? Of course not.

But I have seen it happen for many people. So if someone reading this resonates with pickup, go for it.

[Toby]

@aurum question: have you ever had a look into the Enneagram? If so, are you an Enneagram type 7, sexual subtype? (If you haven't: the Enneagram is a very good mirror / map to show a person their potential but also their unconscious patterns)
I'm asking because what you wrote sounds exactly like that type and unfortunately that would be exactly the unconscious patterns running imo.

[Arkandeus]

pickup is legit the hardest thing I have ever done in my life

it is pure ego death

rejection from girls, public rejection, disgust from women to you, afraid to be killed by other men for approaching girls, men that watch you like hawks, competition

the deepest fears come out and are expressed, and beyond it are beautiful experiences and social healing, magical experiences

I'm not doing it anymore, it is not part of my path

but there's certainly nothing sleazy or unhonorable in pickup

it is tough grade spiritual work

[molosku]

1 hour ago, Arkandeus said:

pickup is legit the hardest thing I have ever done in my life

it is pure ego death

rejection from girls, public rejection, disgust from women to you, afraid to be killed by other men for approaching girls, men that watch you like hawks, competition

the deepest fears come out and are expressed, and beyond it are beautiful experiences and social healing, magical experiences

I'm not doing it anymore, it is not part of my path

but there's certainly nothing sleazy or unhonorable in pickup

it is tough grade spiritual work

Hitting on women is spiritual work? I wonder if the buddha went clubbing often back in the days... I know jesus must have had some crazy groupies at least. 

[Dogsbestfriend]

The hardest thing you've ever done.. it's not easy but it's basically identifying good spots and getting over shyness which can be quite hard for some, including me. The rejection part can be softened quite a bit if your approach is right. 

It can indeed be sleazy though depending on how it's done. I've been embarrassed for some people, it can get ugly when someone can't pick up on negative body language or take a cue. 

Probably the most effect advice I ever got was stop trying to pickup at all, just be interested in their story, in them - without expecting anything in return, even if you strike out you gain a friend - more friends, bigger circle increased chances. You'd think this was common sense. Anyways that was all a long time ago for me.

[Arkandeus]

@molosku

pickup is pure love work, you are spending your time trying to please women, trying to make them feel good, to make them feel comfortable, to make them pass a good time, to connect with them

even if sex is involved, sexuality is spiritual as well

what is more spiritual then trying to connect with someone else?if that's a woman so be it

I know there a lot of guilt beliefs around sex, these need to be passed by

Edited April 27, 2018 by Arkandeus