2 question for the spiritual elite in here!

[MarkusSweden]

Note, if you are a newbie, or haven't gone far in the path of enlightenment, please stay away. 

I like qualitative answers from the most advanced people in here, since one question involve my family. 

Requirement for leaving an answer in this thread: 

At least 2/3 criteria must be met in order to answer, please tell me which two criteria you met at the beginning of the answer.(Or if you met all three of them)

1. •You must have had at least one fully enlightened experience that is not drug induced, and also at least one enlightened experience during influence of psychedelic drugs! 

2. •At least a sum total of 1000 meditation hours or more. 

3. •At least 10 psykedelic trips, out of which at least three(or more) of them were with 5meo-dmt. 

Questions: 

1. Most important question. I like to help out my parentes and my grandmother to see the truth. They trust me, and I would like to give them psychedelics. But my parents are in their 60s and my grandmorher is 80+. All of them lived highly conventional lives. Can it be too chocking for them if I indroduce them to psycedelics or will it be a blessing? They are open minden in Regards to me and that they trust my "unconventional view" on reality. But they all trust aurhorities, media, corporations and society norms. Given that they all lead fully conventional lives and are in somewhat old age(definitely my GM at least), how wise is it to let them have psycedelics? I'm a positive person and like to think of great succesful outcomes, But Maybe I should think twice?

2. Next question is simply why we tell eachother that we don't exist, when it's rather the polar opposit, not only do we exist, we exist for eternity, and always had, not to mention that we are infinite, therefor, nothing is separate from us. We should say that we're limiting and reduce the understanding of who we are to s personal self, when infact, we are everything else as well aka unlimited consciousness. We are so literary infinite more then the body that it's fair to say that we're (asymtothically) not the body(even though we are that also, just as the table next to you) So why do we scare people with saying that they don't exist, when they exist in such an infinite way that they can't grasp. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[molosku]

But in order to tell the noobs from the advanced guys, there must be a trial!  How else can you know that the answer comes from a deep, ultra spirtual place?  I'll save you some trouble and initiate the trial here. 

In order to answer OPs questions, first answer this question:

"what is the sound of one hand clapping?"

And only THEN, post no need to thank me @MarkusSweden

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by molosku

[MarkusSweden]

@molosku I will not Thank you, But I give you credit for a good laugh! ?

[iamme]

I can only answer the second question as my awakening had  nothing to do with drugs (they're very illegal here).      

My awakening was indeed a state similar to nothingness. If one lacks sufficient understanding, could easily confuse with nothingness the perfect stillness, the absence of time and thoughts. When I came back from that, it seemed indeed that for a moment outside time my self had vanished. I didn't jump to the conclusion that there is no self, instead I kept asking questions.

As a result of that awakening, I was immediately overcome with love and a sense of well being, that everything is all right. 

That loving state has been replaced with feelings, as I'm working through my emotional hangups. 

Like yourself, I'm eagerly awaiting the explanations of those who are convinced and telling everyone else that there is no self. 

My best guess is that they mean there is no ego, as in ego doesn't really exist. 

[molosku]

@iamme your answer is invalid as you didn't answer the trial question. NEXT! 

[Faceless]

 

 

1# Their is No such thing as spiritual elite, as enlightened being does not even reside in the realm of measure. Claiming as such is a movement of time/thought. 

2# Does enlightened being have anything to do with experience? Enlightened being implies the ending of all experience. This is so. See for yourself though. You will never know till you go it yourself. 

3# Doesn't enlightened being imply the ending of all movements of volition, effort, and demand in the direction of psychological time? Meditation may be useful for some and others is totally unecessary. Some may feel they need to participate in meditation and others not so much. Depends on your current state of being.? I can assure you this, when time ends one no longer meditates, but is meditation. 

My personal opinion....

These requirmets are based on assumptions passed down through time/cultures. A path may be useful for some, as ultimately the path reveals that their is no path. A path implies time. Their is no path to the timeless dimension. This also must be explored for ones self. 

Some may disagree and I respect them for doing so. After all you can’t take my or anyone’s word for it. You must see for yourself.

The requirements are as far as I read. I just wanted to clear up a few things before ? hit the fan?

??

[Aimblack]

13 minutes ago, Faceless said:

1# Their is No such thing as spiritual elite, as enlightened being does not even reside in the realm of measure. Claiming as such is a movement of time/thought. 

Damn,that's a really nice way to put things.

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

Damn,that's a really nice way to put things.

?

Such division doesn't belong in the kingdom of heaven. Only isolated ‘alienated’ spirits would invite such division. 

 ??

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Faceless

[shamaanitar]

How can one be a part of spiritual elite? If we are seeking to know there is no seperation, why are you trying to seperate other from your "elite"? I wonder whom is the one creating this seperation. The conditioning of our culture is so strong that even in this we want to create seperation, enlightend and the non-enlightend. The elite and the non-elite. This is what is holding us from finding out what is real.

 

Whom is the one wanting to change your family?

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, shamaanitar said:

How can one be a part of spiritual elite? If we are seeking to know there is no seperation, why are you trying to seperate other from your "elite"? I wonder whom is the one creating this seperation. The conditioning of our culture is so strong that even in this we want to create seperation, enlightend and the non-enlightend. The elite and the non-elite. This is what is holding us from finding out what is real.

 

Whom is the one wanting to change your family?

Yeah it’s a movement of measure/time. 

[SgtPepper]

On 4/23/2018 at 6:44 AM, molosku said:

"what is the sound of one hand clapping?"

*silence*

 

On 4/23/2018 at 6:40 AM, MarkusSweden said:

Questions: 

1. Most important question. I like to help out my parentes and my grandmother to see the truth. They trust me, and I would like to give them psychedelics. But my parents are in their 60s and my grandmorher is 80+. All of them lived highly conventional lives. Can it be too chocking for them if I indroduce them to psycedelics or will it be a blessing? They are open minden in Regards to me and that they trust my "unconventional view" on reality. But they all trust aurhorities, media, corporations and society norms. Given that they all lead fully conventional lives and are in somewhat old age(definitely my GM at least), how wise is it to let them have psycedelics? I'm a positive person and like to think of great succesful outcomes, But Maybe I should think twice?

2. Next question is simply why we tell eachother that we don't exist, when it's rather the polar opposit, not only do we exist, we exist for eternity, and always had, not to mention that we are infinite, therefor, nothing is separate from us. We should say that we're limiting and reduce the understanding of who we are to s personal self, when infact, we are everything else as well aka unlimited consciousness. We are so literary infinite more then the body that it's fair to say that we're (asymtothically) not the body(even though we are that also, just as the table next to you) So why do we scare people with saying that they don't exist, when they exist in such an infinite way that they can't grasp. 

1. Unless they have a heart problem, they should be okay taking traditional psychedelics like LSD or Psilocybin mushrooms. I know they have had trials giving mushrooms to cancer patients in order to reduce death anxiety (https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/how-psychedelic-drugs-can-help-patients-face-death.html). In addition, Aldous Huxley took it before as he died from cancer. However, I think it will be quite impossible to know whether your parents or grandmother can handle it without a medical doctors opinion. Here is a 61 year old person taking mushrooms :

 

 

2. We do exist eternally, just not our egos. So when Leo says we don't exist. He's talking about our ego/sense of self which relies on distinctions/separations. Feeling, thoughts, emotions are transient and uphold the ego, meaning the ego is transient hence why people think we die. However, the "space" in which all of that is happening in - consciousness, awareness, emptiness - call it what you want, that is eternal and infinite. It can be hard to explain if people don't recognize the temporary nature of life, it goes by moment to moment, dying and creating. Some people can get confused and think their bodies or sense of self lives forever, but that would be incorrect. It is not something to be sad about because when we "die", we truly get to know ourselves, which is the self that is never born and never dies.

Edited April 24, 2018 by SgtPepper

[MarkusSweden]

@SgtPepper what a great answer, pedagogic as Well, Thank you !

[Nathan]

1. I don't think it's possible for an individual to predict how they themselves will react to psychedelics let alone speculate about somebody else's response. All you can really do is list the risks and benefits and supposed beneficial settings and let them decide for themselves. 

2. I mean "exist" is a term coined by humans and thrust upon aspects of reality. What does 'to exist' mean to you? Why does the concept of not actually existing carry such a negative connotation? 

[Nathan]

From my experience reality is more of a "happening" than a "happened to" yet it doesn't always seem that way, just part of it's intricateness I guess. 

[MarinM]

Give them some mdma first

[Arkandeus]

I wouldn't do that to your grand-parents 

maybe a very very small dose of shroomz to your parents first, if they like it then you can all sit together and share what happened between yourselves, and eventually if the grand-parents want to, try it with them, also a ridiculously small dose

you have to really feel the open-mindedness from your parents or grand-parents

the best would be for either your mom or your dad to do a small dosis, in the presence of your grand-parents

this way they trip indirectly, the energies during a trip ripple out, and a trip is not contained to the person tripping, being nearby is enough to feel it, to experience whats going on

and this way you only have one person to sit for, managing the trips of both your parents at once would be too much

[Fourgut]

The spiritual "elite"? Wow, saying that you must be a newbie, lol.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, Fourgut said:

The spiritual "elite"? Wow, saying that you must be a newbie, lol.

Humility is an absolute necessity

[sarapr]

I don't have any of your requirements but I can't hold my tounge so here's my answer

if they are as conventional as you say they are, even when you introduce them to psychedelics and leave it up to them to decide, they won't choose to try them.

you can try it and see that I'm right  then I would automatically fall into those three categories you described  

[SgtPepper]

On 4/29/2018 at 4:22 AM, Mikael89 said:

Is that the answer to what is the sound of one hand clapping?

Well, obviously that is the case in practice, in this dream, even Donald Trump could answer it, but I thought the answer would be more difficult than that.

Or is the answer actually this?: 

  Hide contents

*Clap*, just like usually. Because there is no such thing as two hands or two of anything, so "two" hands clapping is actually one hand clapping, and one hand clapping is two (whatever amount) hands clapping. (In this dream.)

Everything is one. One is everything.

 

It's one answer. The sound of a clap only occurs because of two hands. Unless the one hand is clapping against something else.