The Cult of Leo , The Exit of Source_Mystic

[Galyna]

@lmfao It made my day, lol. Thanks 

[Rilles]

According to your logic；every community that doesnt 100% agree with my views = cult!! oh no!! buhu, get real.

[molosku]

How dramatic indeed. 

[Aimblack]

OP I have found out through my own research that the breathing techniques can indeed have a harmful effect, so I don't do them. Simple as that, but keep in mind that although there is much dogmatism and groupthink here, there is also alot of really good info on here. Without this forum I wouldn't have discovered the works of Byron Katie for instance and after doing one session, I know that her inquiry is the real deal...

8 hours ago, WildeChilde said:

I do wish Leo would warn about the psychological impact his videos may have upon viewers with preexisting psychological disorders; it kind of scares me the number of people on this forum who literally want to commit suicide.  It's flat-out creepy.

 

Ye I keep pointing out the exact same thing but most people including leo don't really seem to care.

[molosku]

3 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

OP I have found out through my own research that the breathing techniques can indeed have a harmful effect, so I don't do them. Simple as that, but keep in mind that although there is much dogmatism and groupthink here, there is also alot of really good info on here. Without this forum I wouldn't have discovered the works of Byron Katie for instance and after doing one session, I know that her inquiry is the real deal...

 

Ye I keep pointing out the exact same thing but most people including leo don't really seem to care.

Hold on there. Are the suicides actually confirmed? Is the only proof the posts that those users posted? 

[Aimblack]

6 minutes ago, molosku said:

Hold on there. Are the suicides actually confirmed? Is the only proof the posts that those users posted? 

not only talking about suicides, I'm talking about the potential harmful effects to people who already have deep issues and will adopt his words and be on the path of disempowering self destruction.  

[iamme]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You made your point.  Now, decompress and let's all get back to work.  You need to learn how to let things go.  You can't expect all systems to bow down to you.   Even if you're right!  That's a false expectation you're placing on reality.  You're causing yourself suffering by having that expectation about reality.  

I like this reply. An option to like posts would be nice.

I think people should use their common sense - if something makes you sick, stop it. 

As a new forum member who came on this site through a Google search for a forum to discuss enlightenment, I never heard of Leo Gura. While I see his limitations through some of the replies he gives here, I'm also impressed by the wisdom in others and it looks to me like he really wants to help people and learn from them. 

This is a good community here. I know sites where you wouldn't  last five minutes if you disagreed with owner's work and good luck finding a better community.  

[molosku]

@Mikael89

18 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Remember to not judge guys..

Some replies to Source_Mystic are really judgemental, almost rude.

It's okay to be a bit dramatic. And I even think it's justified in this case.

But why, really? All he could say is "Hi guys, my path is pulling me away from actualized.org, also as an advice, don't blindly believe everything Leo says okay bye" Completely understandable. All this ranting...  

[molosku]

32 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

He is a bit emotional, totally understandable. Have you never been emotional?

Being emotional is a nice personal trait, in my opinion. 

And he cares about other peoples health.

And also, don't forget that he is you.

Good point, I'm not too emotional of a person  But yeah, thats just my perspective 

[Eudaimonia]

Don't blame Leo for the people that are here, you can't control everyone's beliefs. Some people just take what they see and read, and other are sceptical, life is like that, here and outside

[Rilles]

@Eudaimonia Agreed, I haven't done this practice yet, because I don't feel completely ready for it yet, but that doesn't mean that Leo shouldn't endorse it, there are certain risks to almost everything.

[Hsinav]

@Source_Mystic

Your need to be right and prove Leo wrong is draining you of positive energy.

[Truth]

19 hours ago, Source_Mystic said:

 Today aculize.org is a cult of Leo. Where facts are dawrfed by his charisma and influence. People spend more time defending him and his pratices than researching them and coming to there own conclusions. This sight has become the status quo of Leo and his point of view which is seen beyond reproach by his followers, that wish to be nothing more than a Leo clone.

What I have goten  in return is personal atack and hostility, while people completely ignore the facts. So be it. Ignore the facts and let Leo direct your path instead of you being responsible for it yourself. That is the mentally of a cult follower.

   So this is in fact my last post I have shut off all notifications and will have nothing to do with this sight directly anymore. 

If any of you that I have helped with meditation or I have befriended would  like to keep on contact send me a message with your email in mail system here.  I will come back and review it in a weeks time. 

After that I will no longer associate or participate  with aculize.org in anyway.

Even though I do not agree with all that goes on here, I still wish all of you well even Leo. I  truly hope you all find what you are looking for. 
 

GOODBYE AND FAREWELL 

@Source_Mystic Lol I know you're talking about me, I wasnt defending Leo, my "attacks and hostility" is only your interpretations.

Your interpretations are everything and you're not even aware of them, that's the thing I was trying to make you more conscious of. 

 

 

[Matt8800]

On 4/22/2018 at 0:55 PM, Source_Mystic said:

 I once respected Leo for his tenacity dedication and nonbias oppinion bit those days are long gone.

In showing the mechnisem of holotropic/shamanic breathing is in fact oxygen deprevation causing the effect. The resistance to this simple fact by Leo his followers as well as a large percentage of this community has shown me the true  nature of this place and what it has become.

When  I came across acuulized.org I saw it as a catalyst for positive change a place where people could come togeather and share information on how their path was progressing and give insight and help  to others.

 That may very well be what it was, but that is not what  curently.  Today aculize.org is a cult of Leo. Where facts are dawrfed by his charisma and influence. People spend more time defending him and his pratices than researching them and coming to there own conclusions. This sight has become the status quo of Leo and his point of view which is seen beyond reproach by his followers, that wish to be nothing more than a Leo clone.

 The only reason I  have been as pasionate and  relentless in the facts of holotropic/shamanic breathing is I feel based on the very real facts it is  dangerious especially  if done for extended times or on a regular basses.

What I have goten  in return is personal atack and hostility, while people completely ignore the facts. So be it. Ignore the facts and let Leo direct your path instead of you being responsible for it yourself. That is the mentally of a cult follower.

   So this is in fact my last post I have shut off all notifications and will have nothing to do with this sight directly anymore. 

If any of you that I have helped with meditation or I have befriended would  like to keep on contact send me a message with your email in mail system here.  I will come back and review it in a weeks time. 

After that I will no longer associate or participate  with aculize.org in anyway.

Even though I do not agree with all that goes on here, I still wish all of you well even Leo. I  truly hope you all find what you are looking for. 
 

GOODBYE AND FAREWELL 

@Source_Mystic I have a couple questions:

1. Please provide links to resources that shows that people have been injured from holotropic breathing. There are a lot of people doing it so I imagine lots of people are dead if you are correct

2. Even if Leo was misguided regarding this technique, so what? Does that mean the rest of the information is not valuable? If you are looking for sources of spiritual information that contains no errors whatsoever, you'll be looking for a long time lol

[Ethan_05]

@electroBeam

On 4/22/2018 at 6:44 PM, electroBeam said:

some of what you say is true, but I challenge you to join a real cult, like the ku klux klan, so you can get a sense of what a real cult is.

Someone being dogmatic about your opinions in no way implies this place is a cult, just that some people on here are lazy and would rather listen to leo than do the work themselves, which is to be expected considering the current condition of society.

BTW your fear of the shamanic breathe technique is the exact same fear keeping you from self realization. You've fallen for the trap.

I semi-agree, hear me out. How you stated that being dogmatic(or charismatic with one's opinions) doesn't imply a cult, that seems to be a logical conclusion. I especially like how you added in about how many people these days choose laziness and don't want to do the work for themselves. That's probably quite a bit of Leo's following just because this work is so hard to do. 

On the other hand, I don't think the fear is what's keeping one from self realization. This could my ego talking, but I want to make sure something's safe before I try it. On one side I've heard of some information published about how oxygen deprivation could have an effect on the brain in which a limited number of brain cells are killed, but I also recognize that doing this kind of inner work may have potential benefits such as relieving anxiety, depression, and psychological struggles that are deeply rooted within ourselves. 

I guess the real question is, do the positives outweigh the negatives. Do I want to take this small risk of oxygen deprivation in order to reap the benefits of turning inward in a direct and powerful way. That's up to you.

[Source_Mystic]

Well I guess I will adress what has been posted and then take my leave.

@Faceless @egoless @Joseph Maynor  @WildeChilde and so many others  I have met and had great conversations,  disccusions and even at times heated arguments that I have learned a great deal from. You will be missed. 

@Eudaimonia  I do not blame Leo for others actions but  he does have  some responceablity to uphold a reasonable example and  currently I feel that responceablity is lacking. 

@Hsinav  it really is not about me being right. At the core what this was about the fact that Leo and others could not just do some research and and admit that this pracice is  and effects are due to oxygen deprevation. That was my main problem. They could not look at that very verifiable fact and just accept that  because it weakened there case for holotropic/shamanic breathing.  

All I wanted was that single fact researched and affermed by Leo since he is the one everyone here seems to follow.  

That was all I truly wanted,  awarness that the effects are caused by oxogen deprevation. Then  with at least with that basic knowledge everyone here could make an informed decision themselfs. 

When that could not happen it set off a series of alarms for me about Leo and his followers. 

I am not here to control anyone or tell them what to do. That being said a person should  be atacked for bringing  verifiable facts into a disccusion. 

 

@Truth I was not talking about you spicificaly it was a general statement that encompassed everyone that was saying things  like "gross projection" or" your projecting"or sidelining what I was saying. Instead of adressing  it directly. It was decided it was a far better strategy to distract and attack. Defending there own position at all cost. Instead of having a actual conversation.   

@Leo Gura  I know you love holotropic/shamanic breathing. All I wanted was for you to be at the very least transparent with you community that the mechinism was oxygen deprevation. So they could make up there own minds.  Every place and websight I went to nothing was discussed about  what was causing the effect it really  looks like that fact is hidden  from the holotropic community.  I am not good with people hiding  information.

I am sure you test your drugs to make sure you know what you are taking in the same vain people at the very least should know what this tequinique is being caused by. 

 I can tell you from my many decades  of meditaton and researching anything remotely religious, spiritual,magickal, or mystical that almost anything can be done though meditation or active awareness. It is not always easy  but it gets results. I can guarantee that no physical damage is done to the meditater.

 Now there are meditation tequiniques  that I am aware of that if one is not ready to face their trama can  cause psychological damage.  For those tequinques I believe the  person finds them or finds a person that can guide them though those safely or disovers them themselfs when they are ready. 

  When you climb it is not about speed it is about getting a firm grip and footing then even that is not enough sometimes and you may  fall anyway but that is what the rope and harness is for. 

See,  it is not that I refuse to take risks I just midigate them with common sense. I also acess wheather the risk to reward ratio is even worth it.  

It this case and from my prospective and experance the small gains do not  justify the possible damage done. Especilly when other techniques thst exist that deal with processing trama better healthier and with no physical risk.

Furthermore my path has been directed into a shamanic focus and the thought of you talking or teaching about shamanism or shamanic pratices is a bit horrfying.

It reminds me when my world religions professor had a heart attck and while he was in recovery he   got replaced  with bible and divinity professor.  The bias showed though in every lesion. The course from that point on was a complete waste. 

I can not see shamanism  being transmitted in a authentic way with your curent bias.

Totem animals , vision quest , alles, spirit ancestoral guides , omens, journeying , walking the boundary between this world and the next,  nateral magick. I truly do not think that these things can be authenicaly transmitted by you.  

But I hope I am wrong as shamanism has great ways to help us  all heal , communicate more efficiently with ourselfs , others and beyond. It also has fantastic ways  explore enhanced and  alterstates of conscious and the connections to  Dreams. Dreams are often overlooked in enlightenment and aculization work and I feel that that is a grave mistake. 

I wish everyone here well on their individual  path I hope you find ways to deal with your trama safety and  find all the tools you need to become a fully a actualized beings. 

Farwell and good luck

P.s.  directly after I wrote this your sight went down which from a stand point of synchronicty and omens  confirms indeed my time here is over as I was just now alowed to post it. 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[Nahm]

@Source_Mystic You’re projecting the entire Universe. Realization could start here, with this post. 

[Girzo]

26 minutes ago, Source_Mystic said:

I know you love holotropic/shamanic breathing.

Man where did he say that.  It's just a technique and it seems to be quite working. 

Doing LSD even once is way more dangerous, even when you have a 100% certainity it's the LSD.

[Elisabeth]

30 minutes ago, Source_Mystic said:

 

@Leo Gura  I know you love holotropic/shamanic breathing. All I wanted was for you to be at the very least transparent with you community that the mechinism was oxygen deprevation. So they could make up there own minds.  Every place and websight I went to nothing was discussed about  what was causing the effect it really  looks like that fact is hidden  from the holotropic community.  I am not good with people hiding  information.

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And, many of us(including Leo) have acknowledged you probably being right about physiology. You've done your marketing well. But we differ on risk assessment. 

It's definitelly not hidden from the community. Here 's a FAQ entry:

Quote

 

Q: What are the physiological mechanisms in Holotropic Breathwork? (excerpt) from Holotropic Breathwork, Stanislav and Christina Grof, 2010, SUNY, pages 161-163

Many people assume that when we breathe faster, we simply bring more oxygen into the body and into the brain; they believe that this is the mechanism responsible for the experiences in Holotropic Breathwork sessions. But—due to intricate homeostatic mechanisms operating in the human body—the situation is actually much more complicated. It is true that faster breathing brings more air and thus oxygen into the lungs, but it also eliminates carbon dioxide (CO2). Since CO2 is acidic, reducing its content in blood increases the alkalinity of the blood, more specifically the alkalinity/acidity index called pH. The blood pigment hemoglobin binds more oxygen in an acidic milieu and less in an alkaline milieu. This is a compensatory homeostatic mechanism that guarantees effective oxygen supply during physical exertion, which is typically associated with increased production of acidic metabolic products. The alkalosis during rapid breathing thus leads to reduced oxygen transfer to the tissues. This in turn triggers a homeostatic mechanism that works in the opposite direction: the kidneys excrete urine that is more alkaline to compensate for this change.

The situation is further complicated by the fact that certain areas in the body, including he brain, can respond to faster breathing by vasoconstriction, which naturally causes a reduction of the oxygen supply. Observations in Holotropic Breathwork sessions have shown that this is not a mandatory built-in response of these organs to faster breathing. Where this vasoconstriction occurs and how intense it will be reflects the involvement of these organs in traumatic situations in the individual’s past. It tends to disappear when a person relives and works through the memory of these events. The physiological changes also depend on the type of breathing involved. Deep breathing leads to a more complete exchange of gasses in the lungs, while shallow breathing leaves a significant part of the gases in the “dead space,” so that less oxygen reaches the pulmonary capillaries and less carbon dioxide (CO2) is expelled from the lungs.

As we have seen, the physiological mechanisms activated by faster breathing are quite complex and it is not easy to evaluate the overall biochemical situation in an individual case without a battery of specific laboratory examinations. However, if we take all the aforementioned physiological mechanisms into consideration, the situation of people during Holotropic Breathwork very likely resembles that of being in high mountains, where there is less oxygen and the CO2 level is decreased by compensatory faster breathing. The cerebral cortex, being the youngest part of the brain from an evolutionary point of view, is generally more sensitive to a variety of influences (such as alcohol and anoxia) than the older parts of the brain. This situation would thus cause inhibition of the cortical functions and intensified activity in the archaic parts of the brain, making the unconscious processes more available.

Many individuals, as well as entire cultures, that live in extreme altitudes are known for their advanced spirituality. Examples are the yogis in the Himalayas, the Tibetan Buddhists, and the Peruvian Incas. It is therefore tempting to attribute their advanced spirituality to the fact that, in an atmosphere with lower content of oxygen, they have easier access to holotropic experiences. However, we again have to take into consideration the intricate homeostatic mechanisms operating in the human body. While short-term exposure to high altitude might be comparable to Holotropic Breathwork, an extended stay in high elevations triggers physiological adaptations, such as increased production of red blood cells. The acute situation during Holotropic Breathwork might, therefore, not be directly comparable to an extended stay in high mountains.

In any case, there is a long way from the description of the physiological changes in the brain to the extremely rich array of phenomena that Holotropic Breathwork induces, such as authentic experiential identification with animals, archetypal visions, or past life memories. This situation is similar to the problem of explaining the psychological effects of LSD and other psychedelics. The fact that both of these methods can induce transpersonal experiences in which there is access to accurate new information about the universe through extrasensory channels shows that the matrices for these experiences are not contained in the brain.

 

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