Dark Night of Soul

[Thanatos13]

I have realized that those who speak of coming out from the dark night of the soul as soemthing transformed for the better were likely lying. I think they didn’t really grasp the lesson from it. 

That everything is meaningless and void. Accounts of positive transformations from it are just ego defense to not have to deal with the reality of our existence. 

No matter what we do or what we decide it is all meaningless and void. It’s paralyzing and soul sapping to realize that, so we make up metaphors of it being a cocoon to make it seem like some transformation rather than the reality of existence .

[Leo Gura]

You are still speaking from ego.

When you really see The Void, it is the most beautiful thing. Nothing negative or problematic about it.

Go deeper! Wake up!

You have not seen the full Void yet.

[Nahm]

Practices, reading, retreats, psychedelics, etc.  Who had this influence on you? It’s not the result of direct experience. Nonduality is pure liberation. Not a metaphor. There is nothing ‘paralyzing or soul zapping’ about it. This is ego backlash against putting the time in. Do the practices anyways. Meaninglessness is unrealized nonduality and it’s prior to the empowerment of Being in charge of one’s own meaning. Realization brings meaning, and thinking, to be something you did before that death. A past life you are freed from. 

 

[Ether]

@Leo Gura Have you? Not critcising, just curious. What has been your most profound experiences related to enlightenment?

[Egoisego]

9 hours ago, Ether said:

@Leo Gura Have you? Not critcising, just curious. What has been your most profound experiences related to enlightenment?

So this is just hilariously delusional. What you and Leo are seeking is a high, enligthenment is not a high. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Egoisego

[Guest Quanty]

Dark Night of the Soul happens every day for the awakened ones. 

[Thanatos13]

On 4/18/2018 at 1:38 AM, Leo Gura said:

You are still speaking from ego.

When you really see The Void, it is the most beautiful thing. Nothing negative or problematic about it.

Go deeper! Wake up!

You have not seen the full Void yet.

Sorry but that simply isn’t true. If you experience anything besides utter nullify then you are stuck in the ego defense of projecting some kind of meaning.

That is not what happened, it’s a gripping sensation and utter nothingness. It’s not a desirable state yet I knew in my bones it is truth. Anything else is just a mental defense to find meaning. It’s like what Albert Camus said. 

If you aren’t living with meaninglessness then you aren’t awakened. If you still see beauty and meaning then you see nothing. 

[Nahm]

There’s a point where the nothing situation becomes obvious. 

[Thanatos13]

38 minutes ago, Nahm said:

There’s a point where the nothing situation becomes obvious. 

That quote is false.

And we are talking about nullity not darkness. To say it is Beautiful is to still be stuck by meaning, even making meaning shows one doesn’t grasp it

[Thanatos13]

On 4/18/2018 at 7:32 AM, Nahm said:

Practices, reading, retreats, psychedelics, etc.  Who had this influence on you? It’s not the result of direct experience. Nonduality is pure liberation. Not a metaphor. There is nothing ‘paralyzing or soul zapping’ about it. This is ego backlash against putting the time in. Do the practices anyways. Meaninglessness is unrealized nonduality and it’s prior to the empowerment of Being in charge of one’s own meaning. Realization brings meaning, and thinking, to be something you did before that death. A past life you are freed from. 

 

You were never in charge and never have or will be for you don’t have free will.

[lhamilt18]

1 hour ago, Thanatos13 said:

 If you aren’t living with meaninglessness then you aren’t awakened. If you still see beauty and meaning then you see nothing. 

What does living with meaninglessness look like?

[jwkspeck]

Meaning/meaninglessness is still a duality. Bringing meaninglessness into the world of meaning (language, philosophy--whatever you want to call what you are doing here) is an absurdity. You aren't seeing how you're attaching meaning to your current state of experience.

[Jamie Universe]

@Thanatos13 I was going to post with a whole argument, but I realized it was useless, because if your on this path, and you continue to work and not rest here at this conclusion, then you will see it for yourself. 

Just keep working! If you rest at this conclusion and one lesson, then you aren't a very good truth-seeker, so keep working.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lhamilt18]

@jwkspeck I was just about to say that haha I was typing: "I mean guys, isn't this the classic problem of Duality at work again? If you're positing that reality is either meaningless or meaningful, beautiful or terrible, it all smells of ego to me. It's probably both and neither right? And even my above comment itself falls into the same trap and on and on..."

[Thanatos13]

1 hour ago, lhamilt18 said:

@jwkspeck I was just about to say that haha I was typing: "I mean guys, isn't this the classic problem of Duality at work again? If you're positing that reality is either meaningless or meaningful, beautiful or terrible, it all smells of ego to me. It's probably both and neither right? And even my above comment itself falls into the same trap and on and on..."

It’s seeing how laughable the concept of self improvement or just improvement in general. I have read a few who have seen it describe it as total nihilism. That those who see anything else are stuck in the ego. There is nothing beyond the void and to see anything in it is ego. 

Its not duality. It’s seeing that any sort of meaning we assign to the things we experience is nonexistent and based on nothing. The “direct experience” many claim is ultimately meaningless, but being human we can’t help but take it as a sign for soemthing. 

Its funny to hear people talk about beyond the void. It just shows fear of it.

[Leo Gura]

@Thanatos13 You are still assigning negative meaning to meaninglessness.

You haven't reached true awakening yet. There is deeper. Much deeper.

[Nathan]

11 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

If you aren’t living with meaninglessness then you aren’t awakened. If you still see beauty and meaning then you see nothing. 

I wouldn't say beauty requires meaning, everything is compelling. It's true that nothing "matters" but at the same time everything "matters". No part of life requires a purpose but the brain attempts to derive one nonetheless. Meaning is still a criteria you're trying to fill, is that neccessary?

Edited April 29, 2018 by Nathan

[Thanatos13]

3 hours ago, Nathan said:

I wouldn't say beauty requires meaning, everything is compelling. It's true that nothing "matters" but at the same time everything "matters". No part of life requires a purpose but the brain attempts to derive one nonetheless. Meaning is still a criteria you're trying to fill, is that neccessary?

Beauty does in fact require meaning. Saying that everything matters though is a false statement because nothing matters. That’s the point. Enlightenment doesn’t exist and even if it did there is no point to it. There is no point to anything that we do. Meaning is simply humans pretending at something.

 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Thanatos13 You are still assigning negative meaning to meaninglessness.

You haven't reached true awakening yet. There is deeper. Much deeper.

Unfortunately you are incorrect. That fact that you are suggesting deeper shows an ego defense against true nothingness. All the teachers I spoke to say they would not recommend it unless death is your other option. It’s not the emotional high that you mistake for it. You don’t seem to grasp true meaninglessness if you seek to assign a positive value to it. It’s a state that once you reach it you don’t want it, yet in your bones you know that doesn’t matter. It’s not something I would expect you or anyone here to understand. This whole forum and website is stuck in the dream and doesn’t want to rip away what feels good. Nothingness isn’t about feeling good or peace, it’s about seeing reality for what it is and such a state tends to be hostile to the human mind. 

[Ibn Sina]

At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to happiness. May be your extremely penetrating mind has really grasped the utter meaninglessness , dreadfulness, hellish nature of reality which the rest of us are not able to grasp. My question is , so what? So what if you have finally realized the true dreadful nature of reality (though you cannot provide any direct and convincing evidence, and you don't even realize how deeply you have latched onto this negative meaning on reality )? Has that made you more happy? More productive? Has realizing that  in away liberated you or fulfilled you, or has knowing about the utter meaningless of reality made you feel bad? if it makes you more depressed , then it is better to fool yourself into happiness. It is far more wiser to be foolish and happy, then then think that you have found the truth (which you are doing right now though you will keep on insisting otherwise), and then be depressed as a result.

[Nahm]

13 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

I have read a few who have seen it describe it as total nihilism.

 

1 hour ago, Thanatos13 said:

All the teachers I spoke to say they would not recommend it unless death is your other option

 

16 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

It’s not a desirable state

13 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

It just shows fear of it.

Thánatos: Son of Nyx (Night) and Erebos (Darkness) and twin of Hypnos(Sleep).

The assumptions and projections are so deep, they are being mistaken for truth. This is classic “being right”, to reinforce the ego. Maya is sneakier than you have realized yet. 

The Self is horrifying if you hang on to the ego. When you let go, it’s joy. It is our light which most frightens us.