In Response To Leo Saying The Men's Right Movement Is All Egotistical (Paraphrased)

[AstralProjection]

As a man myself I use to call myself a feminist. Because I believed that women deserve equality. Fast forward some years, I learned that the core players behind feminism are running out of things to fight for so they exaggerate women's problems. Such as the pay gap between men and women. Any reputable economist doesn't take it seriously, because it doesn't factor in things like hours worked, profession chosen, etc. As it turns out if you took all those factors into consideration then the gap almost disappears between men and women. Anyway I could go on and on about how feminism isn't any better and probably worse than the men's rights movement. And we can get into that if you want. But I strongly suggest that you all watch the documentary movie The Red Pill. It was created by a former feminist. When she as a movie producer went to go dig up some dirt on the men's rights movement she was shocked to find out that it wasn't anything like what the mainstream media has portrayed it to be. I can't give you a link to the actual movie. But I can show you an interview with her, as shown bellow. You can buy her movie or download it on the pirate bay.

Cassie Jaye on Feminism and Men's Rights Activists (Part 1 of 2)

 

Cassie Jaye on The Red Pill and the Men's Rights Movement (Part 2)

 

The Red Pill (2017) - Movie Trailer

 

 

In closing first wave and second wave feminism was legit, but this third wave feminism is nothing but group think run a muck. That being said the men's rights movement have legitimate points. I would love Leo to tell a man that lost his children in a divorce, and custody see his kids, while he pays the ex-wife that the men's rights movement is nothing but ego. News flash, most women come out on top in divorce courts. And that is just one issue men are dealing with.

Edited April 17, 2018 by AstralProjection

[Leo Gura]

Ahahahahahaha.... Oh man...

Nice try rationalizing of the ego's agenda.

It's all ego! Men's rights, Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Stefan Molyneux, Libertarianism, PUA, Red Pill, MOGTOW, Feminism, JSW, anti-JSW, alt-right, regressive left, post-modernism, anti-post-modernism, political correctness, anti-PC, etc.

What you're failing to grasp is all of this is a hallucination, and what you are talking about is SELF-SURVIVAL, which has nothing to do with Truth or reality. Of course men feel oppressed. Every ego feels oppressed and wants to fight to increase its power.

It's all bullshit. The ego will always find a way to justify its selfishness.

The larger point is: you don't exist!

If you are on this forum and following Actualized.org, you need to drop all of these ideological games you are playing. None of this is Consciousness. Actualized.org is guiding you towards something the depth of which you cannot yet fathom: the collapse of reality.

Stop watching Dave Rubin's bitchy nonsense. And all that Red Pill stuff. It is poisoning your mind and turning you into an ideologue without you even realizing it. Of course the poison tastes sweet to the ego, which is why you feel so self-righteous about it.

In issues like this, both sides behave unconsciously, creating a spiral of unconsciousness.

You guys think you're so smart bringing this political nonsense here. But it's all just a red herring.

You are lost inside a dream waging a lesser Jihad. You are being as blind as everyone else who came before you.

WAKE UP!

P.S. Go watch my videos about Self-Deception and Distraction and Webs of Belief. Watch them several times and study the shit out them. You are falling into all of those traps that I warned you about.

[MM1988]

I know how the red pill movement could help me personally in self actualization. Because the dating market became so fucked due to  social media girls are pickier than ever today, which means average guys soon wont be able to get a relationship at all. I know on a intellectual level wanting to get laid is just ego and survival instinct but you cant just skip maslows pyramid like that. If I had a normal dating life I could cross that off, transcend it and go full on on my meditation, so its always in the back of my head and I try to not think about it while working on myself.

 

If the red pill movement could help fight this shallow dating market Im all for it. I dont care about the misogynistic and alpha male stuff though.

Edited April 18, 2018 by MM1988

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, MM1988 said:

... you cant just skip maslows pyramid like that.

Actually, you can, but it's a risky tactic. If Enlightenment doesn't come fast, then it will suffer. Like a freaking lot of suffering.  It's an individual thing to decide whether you can pull off a hardcore, for-freaks-only, direct Enlightenment or you need to practice self-development alongside consciousness work.

[MM1988]

@Girzo Maybe its possible, I guess (hope) Epictetus was pretty content with his life despite being a slave and having his feet broken.

[robdl]

There's ego identification in masculinity/manhood.  The extent to which you're a male rights activist and antagonistic towards feminism, or criticism of men, is usually a reflection of the extent to which you derive identity from being male.    An attack on men literally becomes an attack on "you" and your selfhood. And you've joined causes/groups where the shared male identity is the whole basis/impetus for the group forming.

And you may counter, "but being male is a biological fact, not an egoic delusion," but both can be true.  You can factually be something but also be ego identified with it.  Like you can factually be a lawyer, but you also can derive your identity from it.  You can also factually be a caucasian person, but you can also derive your identity from it (see the KKK, white nationalists).

Basically, male rights activists are to men as what white nationalists are to white people: a faction of a particular group (or collection of people with a shared attribute) that is over-ego-identified with that group, and is dearly holding on to the status quo as an egoic defense mechanism.

It's just that when you're in the thick of it and so strongly identified as such, it's impossible to see the ego mechanisms at play.  And I'm not singling out men either: this can be seen in feminist groups as well. There are some feminists who are simply seeking fairness/equality in a very conscious way, but there are certainly a number of feminists that rely on gender to form their ego identity.  If there was a complete end to gender inequality and sexism of any kind, and feminism ceased to have a purpose or necessity, it would actually be an existential identity threat to those ego identified as such.

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by robdl

[Otogi]

In todays age a man could easily put MGTOW into Maslows hierarchy of needs because just like the whole fucking hierarchy Mens right movement, MGTOW etc etc only provide comfort for the ego and ensures its survival. It makes mundane material life better, more secure and more pleasurable.

It's either that or you throw the complete pyramid right into the trash except for the tip and you focus on this tip right away, on your enlightenment and your non existence. Go straight to the top.

[AstralProjection]

12 hours ago, Outer said:

Why are innocent video game developers mentioned?

@Leo Gura If everything is egotistical then the word loses its meaning. To reduce all of that you mention to one attribute which they share is like a scientist saying the body is just atoms, nothing special about the body from other atoms. It's JUST ATOMS! Ignoring the other differences between a body and a tree. I suppose I can call this an equality fallacy. Or a reduction to shared characteristic fallacy.

What if you stop reducing everything to their shared characteristic? What about stop doing appeal to motive or ad hominem?

 

@Leo Gura

This right here. You literally took the words out of my mouth. And this is the paradox. Both what Leo is saying and what you and I are saying here have some merit. They are both valid points. On the one hand "fuck all the games of life just go straight to the holy grail enlightenment" for lack of a better term. But there are still issues to be dealt with in the real world. No amount of enlightenment will give you the discernment you need that experience in the real world and science gives you. And this is perfectly clear in Leos video titled "What Is The Devil? - The Mechanics Of Evil." I learned the value in seeking truth outside of enlightenment/religion with that video.

Edited April 18, 2018 by AstralProjection

[AstralProjection]

Seeking enlightenment and dealing with real world issues with discernment are not mutually exclusive.

Edited April 18, 2018 by AstralProjection

[robdl]

6 minutes ago, AstralProjection said:

Seeking enlightenment and dealing with real world issues are not mutually exclusive.

dealing with world issues consciously*, not through a lens of ego identification/attachment. If you fragment the world into "us---men" and "them---women," (which male rights activists are prone to do) and that is the lens through which you deal with real world issues, then you are at odds with any enlightenment work you're doing.

Edited April 18, 2018 by robdl

[Otogi]

5 minutes ago, robdl said:

dealing with world issues consciously*, not through a lens of ego identification/attachment. If you fragment the world into "us---men" and "them---women," and that is the lens through which you deal with real world issues, then you are at odds with any enlightenment work you're doing.

Being part of the MGTOW community for a while back then I can assure you that some men started spiritual practices because they were inspired by celibate monks. First they called themselves "mgtow monks" (because they avoided all sexual contact and relationships with women) and then they started to get really deep and became actual monks. Soon enough in the MGTOW community some deep spiritual, occult and philosophic gems started to pop up and even the nature of the ego and reality got discussed.

It is not all black and white. Egos love to demonize and judge everything, but the sad truth is for any ego that good can be found even in MGTOW. Those men found community, security and inspiration in MGTOW and eventually they found spirituality and deeper understanding about reality. Now there are some MGTOW channels who talk about enlightenment, personal development, gnosticism, the matrix as an illusion and so on. The times when MGTOWs were ONLY hurt crybaby victims who only bitched about women are long over.

It is not really my intetion to defend MGTOW or praise it or anything like that, I am merely making visible the ways of the ego and showing that not all is purely black and white. The collective ego of MGTOW is still completely degenerate of course and you should not dwell there longer than necessary if you want to check it out, pick the gold nuggets and move on. But don't make the mistake to demonize it without having attained proper understanding first.

[robdl]

46 minutes ago, Otogi said:

Being part of the MGTOW community for a while back then I can assure you that some men started spiritual practices because they were inspired by celibate monks. First they called themselves "mgtow monks" (because they avoided all sexual contact and relationships with women) and then they started to get really deep and became actual monks. Soon enough in the MGTOW community some deep spiritual, occult and philosophic gems started to pop up and even the nature of the ego and reality got discussed.

It is not all black and white. Egos love to demonize and judge everything, but the sad truth is for any ego that good can be found even in MGTOW. Those men found community, security and inspiration in MGTOW and eventually they found spirituality and deeper understanding about reality. Now there are some MGTOW channels who talk about enlightenment, personal development, gnosticism, the matrix as an illusion and so on. The times when MGTOWs were ONLY hurt crybaby victims who only bitched about women are long over.

It is not really my intetion to defend MGTOW or praise it or anything like that, I am merely making visible the ways of the ego and showing that not all is purely black and white. The collective ego of MGTOW is still completely degenerate of course and you should not dwell there longer than necessary if you want to check it out, pick the gold nuggets and move on. But don't make the mistake to demonize it without having attained proper understanding first.

So I need to scan through the threads of an online community I never heard of, therefore wasn't actually referencing, with a "completely degenerate" collective ego to pick the gold nuggets, before I'm suitably qualified to comment?  That's a hard pass. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by robdl

[Otogi]

8 minutes ago, robdl said:

So I need to scan through the threads of an online community I never heard of, therefore wasn't actually referencing, with a "completely degenerate" collective ego to pick the gold nuggets, before I'm suitably qualified to comment?  That's a hard pass. 

It will come natural for anyone who is interested in the community or feels drawn to it, for whom it resonates with. All others who are not interested it is not worth to go there and you definetly shouldn't search for those few gold nuggets. This path is not yours.

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Outer said:

Why are innocent video game developers mentioned?

Oops! Lol

Although, Peter Molynuex deserves to be on the list too 

Quote

What if you stop reducing everything to their shared characteristic? What about stop doing appeal to motive or ad hominem?

You are being guided to the Absolute here. All that ego nonsense you get inundated with plenty of everywhere else.

It is a bit like you come to a hardcore Zen monastery and start asking the Zen master for pickup advice or Dave Rubin's and Jordan Peterson's whining about the regressive Left.

The Zen master would slap you across the face for such nonsense. It doesn't even rise to the level of ad hominem.

MOGTOW is a legitimate solution to world problems in the same way Nazism or radical Islam is. It ain't.

If you want to solve world problens for real, at least rise to Spiral Dynamics stage Yellow.

[AstralProjection]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Oops! Lol

Although, Peter Molynuex deserves to be on the list too 

You are being guided to the Absolute here. All that ego nonsense you get inundated with plenty of everywhere else.

It is a bit like you come to a hardcore Zen monastery and start asking the Zen master for pickup advice or Dave Rubin's and Jordan Peterson's whining about the regressive Left.

The Zen master would slap you across the face for such nonsense. It doesn't even rise to the level of ad hominem.

MOGTOW is a legitimate solution to world problems in the same way Nazism or radical Islam is. It ain't.

If you want to solve world problens for real, at least rise to Spiral Dynamics stage Yellow.

Well until I am enlightened I have to function in the real world.

[AstralProjection]

Sometimes it's good to think in extremes, so let me ask you Leo do you think the ego of Mr Rodgers from Mr Rodgers neighborhood is fundamentally the same as Hitler's?

Edited April 18, 2018 by AstralProjection

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, AstralProjection said:

Well until I am enlightened I have to function in the real world.

I think he means that you don't have to pick a side or defend an opinion. It may be the right or logical opinion for you but no matter how logical it is, is just self-preservation deep down inside. Besides, every argument creates dualism (we versus them) and perpetuates suffering and illusion. It is all just a rat race, you can absolutely function in the "real world" without getting trapped in fundamentally useless discussions. I used to be into Red Pill, i recognize that it has its value to free yourself from a limited version of the world to a version where you have more power and "control" (if we have any) but at some point you will have to let go of all opinions, beliefs that turn inevitably into dogmas thus trapping you in illusion. 

[AstralProjection]

30 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I think he means that you don't have to pick a side or defend an opinion. It may be the right or logical opinion for you but no matter how logical it is, is just self-preservation deep down inside. Besides, every argument creates dualism (we versus them) and perpetuates suffering and illusion. It is all just a rat race, you can absolutely function in the "real world" without getting trapped in fundamentally useless discussions. I used to be into Red Pill, i recognize that it has its value to free yourself from a limited version of the world to a version where you have more power and "control" (if we have any) but at some point you will have to let go of all opinions, beliefs that turn inevitably into dogmas thus trapping you in illusion. 

Yeah that makes sense.

[lmfao]

What I'm about to say is not directly related to this topic, but I feel it's worth saying. Not to be arrogant or stuck up, but I hate politics and discussions on social issues because 99% of the people involved pay very little attention to the metaphysics and chains of reasoning that lead to different perspectives. People get very emotionally hung up on it as well, its extremely toxic, and I find political discussion to be very unenjoyable. And even if you discuss politics, nothing will change. You have but a tiny,tiny influence on any real social change in the world.

There is value to be had in thinking about politics and social issues, but its littered with toxicity (which I myself have contributed towards) to the point that I don't give a shit about any of it any more. I'd find it amazing if there existed high consciousness people who found real fulfillment from activism.

[Jamie Universe]

@lmfao I feel ya