How "enlightened" were the stoics?

[MM1988]

I dont understand how stoicism fits within concepts like ego, meditations and enlightenment. Do they contradict each other? Were the stoics suffering besides having all these theories about a happy life?

[Ibn Sina]

I don't think the Stoics were enlightened, as stoicism is more of a philosophy that emphasizes on the positive aspect of the mental activity, whereas enlightenment is about the overtaking of awareness over all mental activities. 

[Leo Gura]

They weren't enlightened. But they had some good intuitions and principles and understanding of human psychology, which makes their teachings useful for personal growth.

One does not have to be enlightened to have useful and profound insights about how to live a good life.

[Kyle H]

Stoicism seemed to be more about manliness and toughness rather than enlightenment, from my view.  I interpret Marcus Aurelius as saying you SHOULD (Leo's concept of "should-ing") just ignore your impulses and cravings by suppressing them and toughing it out.  They also didn't have the knowledge of meditation as a practice to legitimately and permanently decrease cravings.   

[MM1988]

Some parallels I noticed:

 

- The focus on internal rather than external

- The focus on present

- The "surrender" to (your) nature

- Being honest, dont gossip aka playing ego games

- Not chasing pleasures, seeing them as indifferent

- Being indifferent about death

 

The question remains, why are there so many parallels? Does all personal growth point to enlightenment? Why? Do people intuit it?

Edited April 19, 2018 by MM1988

[Leo Gura]

@MM1988 Like I said, the Stoics were good philosphers and psychologists. When you closely observe your inner nature, you will come to the same basic conclusions. The parallels exist because anyone who studies human nature honestly will tend to see the same core principles at work. It's really just a question of how deeply you go down the rabbit hole, and how you choose to express your insights, from within which cultural background.

[Faceless]

I would have to meet one in person to see for myself. It’s the most direct way to see. 

[egoless]

Just now, Faceless said:

I would have to meet one in person to see for myself. It’s the most direct way to see. 

 

[molosku]

As I understand stoic principles, its about living according to nature, virtue, justice and what is good and right, developing ones charecter, determination and prevailing.  Not so much manlines as masculinity, but leaning towards higher conscious values that as a by product make a balanced and thus masculine man AND a feminine woman. When people talk about someone acting very stoic, they usually just mean one suppresses emotions, is untouched by events and such. Stoicism is much more richer philosophy than that. @Kyle H

Edited April 20, 2018 by molosku

[Ayilton]

5 hours ago, molosku said:

As I understand stoic principles, its about living according to nature, virtue, justice and what is good and right, developing ones charecter, determination and prevailing.  Not so much manlines as masculinity, but leaning towards higher conscious values that as a by product make a balanced and thus masculine man AND a feminine woman. When people talk about someone acting very stoic, they usually just mean one suppresses emotions, is untouched by events and such. Stoicism is much more richer philosophy than that. @Kyle H

Kool... 

[OnceMore]

As I was reading Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, just now I have come across this passage that perhaps ties with this thread.

"Think of your many years of procrastination; how the gods have repeatedly granted you further periods of grace, of which you have taken no advantage. It is time now to realise the nature of the universe to which you belong, and of that controlling Power whose offspring you are; and to understand that your time has a limit set to it. Use it, then, to advance your enlightenment; or it will be gone, and never in your power again."