Leo's new obsession, Holotropic/shamanic breathing(warrning!!) -O2

[Erlend K]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why is it Leo's obession?

Lol

You guys really gotta look into this thing called projection.

This is a disappointing response, Leo.

I kinda agree that Source_Mystic's rhetoric, including use of the word 'obsession' was uncalled for, and perhaps even a projection. However, your response was cowardly! This video was clearly based on faulty/insufficient research. You could have acknowledged your mistake, and correct it. Instead you choose to protect your own ego by ridiculing the weakest part of his post (the word 'obsession'). That's an obvious ad hominem attack meant to protect you from having to face the real point hes making, and admit and deal with your own error. Any serious seeker of truth should be grateful for having a mistaken view pointed out like this. Source_Mystic offered you an opportunity to correct a misconception. Every time that happens that's another step towards truth.

The mature way to handle this would be to admit your research for this video was flawed, and thank Source_Mystic for pointing it out. Then do some serious research into possible negative side effects of the practice, ideally contact medical professionals to get their viewpoint. Then edit the video, to avoid spreading misinformation. That is, potentially dangerous misinformation

[MiracleMan]

9 hours ago, Erlend K said:

This is a disappointing response, Leo.

I kinda agree that Source_Mystic's rhetoric, including use of the word 'obsession' was uncalled for, and perhaps even a projection. However, your response was cowardly! This video was clearly based on faulty/insufficient research. You could have acknowledged your mistake, and correct it. Instead you choose to protect your own ego by ridiculing the weakest part of his post (the word 'obsession'). That's an obvious ad hominem attack meant to protect you from having to face the real point hes making, and admit and deal with your own error. Any serious seeker of truth should be grateful for having a mistaken view pointed out like this. Source_Mystic offered you an opportunity to correct a misconception. Every time that happens that's another step towards truth.

The mature way to handle this would be to admit your research for this video was flawed, and thank Source_Mystic for pointing it out. Then do some serious research into possible negative side effects of the practice, ideally contact medical professionals to get their viewpoint. Then edit the video, to avoid spreading misinformation. That is, potentially dangerous misinformation

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by MiracleMan

[Truth]

@Source_Mystic and @Erlend K :

@Leo Gura : 

Me:

[eskwire]

I am having such a good time reading studies on this! It's fascinating. 

My favorite quotation so far, "This study represents further preliminary evidence that HB [Holotropic Breathwork] may be psychologically beneficial, and specifically that it may reduce psychiatric symptoms in mild-to-moderately distressed, educated, white females" aka me. ??? So good.

Anyway, @Source_Mystic, I am plugging away. There is a lot of dense reading I have to do, so I will probably have something decent put together this weekend I hope. So far, looks like voluntary hyperventilation is already used as exposure therapy for people with anxiety and panic disorders and has been deemed safe, but I will get you the details.

This quotation was interesting, "Cerebral hemodynamic measurement has shown that within 20-30 seconds of voluntary hyperventilation, blood flow velocity decreases in cerebral arteries, along with increases in capillary pH, Po2, and oxygen saturation."

Edited April 17, 2018 by eskwire

[phoenix666]

I didn't do massive research. but I quickly looked it up on pubmed, which I would consider a very trustable source and it seems to be safe. like @eskwire said, it seems to already been used from medical practitioners for psycho therapy in people with anxiety disorders.

I also read they successfully use 'voluntary hyperventilation' for the treatment of alcohol addiction and neurotic disorders. also for psychologic pain therapy. 

[Source_Mystic]

@Leo Gura please  address and correct your errors like a man be transparent and nonbias Leo. Avoidance  ignorance and laziness are not enlightened and if you cling to them nither are you. 

@Erlend K Thank you 

On 4/16/2018 at 11:18 AM, Erlend K said:

This is a disappointing response, Leo.

I kinda agree that Source_Mystic's rhetoric, including use of the word 'obsession' was uncalled for, and perhaps even a projection. However, your response was cowardly! This video was clearly based on faulty/insufficient research. You could have acknowledged your mistake, and correct it. Instead you choose to protect your own ego by ridiculing the weakest part of his post (the word 'obsession'). That's an obvious ad hominem attack meant to protect you from having to face the real point hes making, and admit and deal with your own error. Any serious seeker of truth should be grateful for having a mistaken view pointed out like this. Source_Mystic offered you an opportunity to correct a misconception. Every time that happens that's another step towards truth.

The mature way to handle this would be to admit your research for this video was flawed, and thank Source_Mystic for pointing it out. Then do some serious research into possible negative side effects of the practice, ideally contact medical professionals to get their viewpoint. Then edit the video, to avoid spreading misinformation. That is, potentially dangerous misinformation

@Leo Gura I used the word obsession as a hook as a provocative way to get attention to  the post not really as projection. I could have just as easily said focus.  I get obsessed or focused on subjects myself but when I do I still look at all sides. My obsession or focus  is understanding  a subject as compleatly as I can. Nor am I above error but an enlightened person addresses their  shortcomings and corrects them. Leo  you refuse to do that or adequately test this methiod. Avoidance and ignorance of a subject is not walking the path of truth. All I wanted was transparency of the subject.  I want facts about what this technique is doing and that it is depriving your brain of oxygen to achieve the effect. If after that people think it is a good idea to do this 52 times in a year or  for 9 hours in one day I can not help those people , nor is that my intent. My intent is awarness always has been always will be. I want people to be aware of all the facts then make their own choice out of understanding not ignorance. 

@eskwire  How is that research coming ?  I am waiting for somene to show me how  extended oxygen deprevation from 15 minuets to 9 hours is healthy and furthermore so healthy that it should be a regualiar practice daily or weekly for 52 sessions in a year. 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[Truth]

@Source_Mystic :

lol you really won't let this go will you.

[Nahm]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:16 PM, Truth said:

@Source_Mystic and @Erlend K :

@Leo Gura : 

Me:

Very funny stuff. Almost lost my breath! ? Thanks

[Truth]

17 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Very funny stuff. Almost lost my breathe! ? Thanks

Lol you're very welcome.

 

[Source_Mystic]

4 hours ago, Truth said:

@Source_Mystic :

lol you really won't let this go will you.

 Nope , I will be here untill Leo corrects his errors and understands the mechanism that is causing the effect. Then tells his community this information untill that happens.  Here I sit on the side of truth and transparency.  If he can not do that then he is showing everyone here that he makes choices based on willed ignorance ( deliberate lack of knowledge )  If that is the case no one should follow him as he is a hypocrite.  Avoidance is not an  answer ether it is nearly a cowards crutch. 

[Nahm]

@Source_Mystic What if, in the very very  end, it was revealed to you that you were projecting reality it’s self - the whole universe. 

And you blew it. Squandered it. Pissed it away Monday morning quarterbacking people who were living, and trying to make the world a little better. 

I bet you’d be pisssss’d!!

edit: piiiiiiss’d!!

 

@Truth My abs are hurting. Mercy!   You’re the Gif whisperer dude.

[Truth]

24 minutes ago, Source_Mystic said:

 Nope , I will be here untill Leo corrects his errors and understands the mechanism that is causing the effect. Then tells his community this information untill that happens.  Here I sit on the side of truth and transparency. 

meanwhile @Source_Mystic:

"Leo should correct his errors, Leo should tell his community, Leo should make choices based on truth, Leo is a hypocrite, Leo shouldn't avoid this. "

I bet you couldn't watch this whole thing without feeling disgusted inside.  

@Nahm you're welcome again lol

Edited April 21, 2018 by Truth

[Augustus]

On ١٤‏/٤‏/٢٠١٨ at 7:11 PM, Source_Mystic said:

 I sent a message leo  he has not read it or responded in in two days so I am bringing  this to the community's attention

Well I tried this twice for 20 minuets. I tested  spO2 level with my s7 smart phone and it was below 95 percent that is not good.  My levels never go below 95 as I test them every day as part of my daily routine. Also the symptoms of numbness and pins and nettles  in the extremity's as well as in the head are signs of hypoxica  or lack of o2 getting to the brain. If you commit to this practice you could be doing permanent brain damage every time. As I believe the effects  are from lack of oxygen from my experience and test as well as my limited research.   Further more O2 SATURATION DOES NOT GO ABOVE 100%.   And leo's premise that you are getting  more oxygen is I believe is incorrect.  If you do your research you can see this for yourself.  I am all for breakthrough techniques but Not at the expense of the health or damage to your physical brain.  Please before you commit to this practice learn what it is doing to your brain and the mechanisms that are causing the effect.

Let me be clear this is not a direct attack on leo I believe he is in error and I welcome him to do his own research into what I am saying just as I am asking you  for your own safety.

Below is a extract from an  article by Joe miller if what he says is true you should do more research and test you 02/spo2  saturation yourself  then make a informed choice based on all your findings as to whether (Holtropic/aka  leo's "shamanic breathing) is right for you.

 

"You might think the problem is too much oxygen. But in healthy people arterial blood leaving the lungs is already nearly fully saturated with oxygen, even during quiet breathing. In other words, you can’t take in too much oxygen.

Rather, the problem with hyperventilation comes from blowing off too much carbon dioxide. In normal breathing, small amounts of incoming air are mixed with a much larger volume of air remaining within the alveoli (the air sacs in the lungs where gas exchange with the blood takes place). This has the effect of maintaining an internal atmosphere within the lungs that contains a much higher percentage of CO2 than does the air outside (carbon dioxide makes up only a very small percentage of atmospheric air). CO2 levels in the bloodstream closely reflect the composition of this internal atmosphere, so that during hyperventilation, as more carbon dioxide is expelled from the alveoli, CO2 levels in the blood also fall.

We tend to see CO2 as a waste product, something to be disposed of. But in fact we need to keep  CO2 in the blood within a certain range, because it plays an important role in maintaining blood pH. As CO2 levels drop during hyperventilation, the result is a higher, or more alkaline, pH.

Because of this rise in blood pH, hyperventilation has an effect that might at first seem paradoxical—by over breathing, we actually reduce the amount of oxygen getting to the brain, a situation termed cerebral hypoxia.

This became an issue during World War II. Hyperventilating military pilots tended to become confused and disoriented. Researchers studying conscientious objectors in the laboratory were able to confirm that hyperventilation led to a reduction in blood flow to the brain, which had long been suspected. Their supposition was this was due to constriction of cerebral blood vessels. This has subsequently been shown to be the case, and although the exact mechanism is still debated, it’s clear that a rise in blood pH  triggers arterial constriction.

What’s worse is that when blood becomes more alkaline, hemoglobin (the molecule that transports oxygen in the red blood cells) tends to hold on more tightly to oxygen. This makes sense in the context of allocating oxygen to the tissues that need it most: metabolically active tissues that have consumed a lot of oxygen and need to replenish it will have also produced a lot of CO2. This creates a more acidic local environment, which in turn causes hemoglobin to release more oxygen. The reverse is true when conditions are more alkaline; tissues don’t get as much oxygen, because hemoglobin hangs on to it.

Thus, the brain gets hit with a double whammy during hyperventilation—less blood flow, plus less oxygen being released from the blood."

 

I have been away from the Forums  as my path has changed dramatically and does not leave much time for this forum.    I still drop by from time to time and I hope you are all well , I  wish nothing but the best for you all of you.  Which is why I have written this post.  Now that I have brought awareness to this practice and its possible dangers I leave the rest up to you.  Do your research and stay safe.  I am not going back to my cave to do my work please do not expect me to respond as my withdraw from this forum is deliberate so I have more time to do what needs to be done on my path.  After I come to my conclusions in my work if any of it translates to things I may share with others,  I will but I am no where near that yet.  My new journey is just beginning. Hallucinogens have nothing to do with it. 

Farewell and stay safe 

 

Thank you for this information, I tried this exercise twice : 10 minutes  first time and 30 minutes the second time, I am not going to do it again but I hope it didn't cause permanent damage to my brain I don't think one or two times can cause long time effect I hope not. I am very worried now.

The problem is all this people in this thread refuse to listen. 

 

 

[Source_Mystic]

2 hours ago, Truth said:

meanwhile @Source_Mystic:

"Leo should correct his errors, Leo should tell his community, Leo should make choices based on truth, Leo is a hypocrite, Leo shouldn't avoid this. "

I bet you couldn't watch this whole thing without feeling disgusted inside.  

@Nahm you're welcome again lol

   Everyone is free to do what the want including Leo ..... as he is right now.  

He has the right to make  bias polarized decisions backed up by nothing but his willed ingnoance ( deliberate lack of knowledge). 

He is free to talk one way and do another thing .... That is called a hypocrite. 

He has the right to ignore knowledge  and facts when it serves him and his agenda. 

He has the right to error  lie and  create , confusion as well as fallacy and falsehood. 

He has the right to avoid me the truth and responcability of his actions. 

THEN AGAIN....I also have the right to point out all these things and show people what Leo is by his actions when he does. 

All I asked for is honnesty and transparency about this pracice.  I wanted it explained using facts so people can make a well informed decision.  Instead of  this new age bullshit that is not even admittng what it is ?    Leo can not even say that this pracice is causing lack of oxygen as its mechanism that is causing the effects.  That is what is dangerious he does not show you what this practice acualy is. He shows you an illusion. 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[Nahm]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P0FOMSA2ZrU

 

[Truth]

59 minutes ago, Source_Mystic said:

  Everyone is free to do what the want including Leo ..... as he is right now.  

He has the right to make  bias polarized decisions backed up by nothing but his willed ingnoance ( deliberate lack of knowledge). 

He is free to talk one way and do another thing .... That is called a hypocrite. 

He has the right to ignore knowledge  and facts when it serves him and his agenda. 

He has the right to error  lie and  create , confusion as well as fallacy and falsehood. 

He has the right to avoid me the truth and responcability of his actions. 

THEN AGAIN....I also have the right to point out all these things and show people what Leo is by his actions when he does. 

All I asked for is honnesty and transparency about this pracice.  I wanted it explained using facts so people can make a well informed decision.  Instead of  this new age bullshit that is not even admittng what it is ?    Leo can not even say that this pracice is causing lack of oxygen as its mechanism that is causing the effects.  That is what is dangerious he does not show you what this practice acualy is. He shows you an illusion. 

 

LOL please tell me more about what Leo has the right to do, I needed to be made very, very, very clear of the rules there. 

you're not asking for honesty, you're asking Leo to conform to your own PERSONAL rules and values upon reality. 

These aren't FACTS, they're only FACTS for YOU! And you're pushing this on Leo! You've already made the community aware and yet you see that Leo isn't conforming and it's perturbing you. 

What does "lack of oxygen is the mechanism that is causing the effects" have to do with growth? NADA. What does it have to do with Truth? only your scientific dogmas apparently.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Truth

[Arkandeus]

I've read this", "I've read the research",  

you guys do realize we're trying to advance the human species here?

are you going to read a book everytime you want to try something new?

there's no book for inventing new things, there's no book for advancing human kind, that's something we do with our bodies

when our ancestors made the move to explore new lands and territories there is no "research" that told them about the risks involved, they put their bodies on the line, they followed their instincts

time and time again research is outdated and biased, research is primitive compared to the instinct of the body that is right now regulating your heart rate and the oxygen levels you're so afraid of, a body that descends from millions of years of evolution, that is all the research you need

try the goddamn technique, listen to your body and it will tell you if its good or not,if its the right time or not, the body, the subconscious is lightyears more capable then the most powerful computer on earth, thats what you have, you only need to listen to your feelings and do not be afraid to try,

any real injury is foreseen from miles by your body and you will be given clear warning signals

Edited April 22, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Source_Mystic]

Lol facts for me ....... Facts do not work that way test do not work that way ..... Facts are the same for everyone no matter what. You do not get to choose. 

I am not the one creating alternative facts Leo is rather omiting the truth and replacing it with his own personal naritive. Nor will he reasearch test or even acknowledge the facts of the matter.  He chooses willed ignorance instead and as a leader that is dangerous.  

Leo,s stateents on his video that it is says "your brain is getting so much oxygen" this is false ... It is a fallacy he is wrong further more it is the exact opposite the brain is getting a lack of oxygen so much of a lack it is shutting down and not functioning properly.  

I did not choose this fact! It is true mechanism  that is causing the effects. I think people should have that information before starting this pracice. The fact is  you are starving your brain for oxygen untill it can no longer function as long as you are doing this tequinique.  Furthermore this fact is hidden so that people will use this. 

    As for the rest those are Leo,s short comings and if he can not face them well I guess he is not enlightened as everyone here thought. 

  This has nothing to do with dogma or  morality  it is not even really about Leo it is about telling people the truth what a breathing tequinique is and not misrepresenting it.  But I have come to terms that Leo will not admit  that he is wrong or  correct his behavior. If he wants to call induced hypoxia  excess oxygen saturation so be it. I show the proof of what I have said  and warned people that this could very well be dangerious espicaly if used for long periods of time or many  sessions. 

  I have gone so far as to quote experts with medical expertise far greater than mine To show and prove what I am saying.  I have seen no due diligence or valid counter argument .... as a matter of fact most of people here choose Leo's opinion over facts and that is dangerous.  Because he misrepresents holotropic/shamanic breathing  completely.  

I am sure Leo test his drugs to make sure what he has gotten is what he intends to take. You should know at the very least what is causing the effects. 

But please follow chrisma instead of facts ..... by all means let people create alternative facts which is just another term for a lie. Actual facts are verifiable testable and able to be reproduced.  

 Do your own reasearch do not trust others to do the work for you as So Many here have done.  

Also when debating the appropriate Responce is to research the topic and make a counter argument not atack the person personaly or deflect.... go do the work and comeback with a actual Responce. 99% of the people here can't or won't do that they are too busy agreeing with Leo.  

I have realized that at this point this is a complete waste of my time that I could be doing other things ..... If people will not do their own research so be it. 

I would rather think that most of the people here would make educated decisions based on facts. But it seems this place is just an extension of the world ...... The followers will follow and the leaders try to forge a better way. Followers do not question.  The problem is when leaders abuse there power and start rewriting facts to suit there own agenda. 

I would rather you would think for yourself but sheep will be sheep. 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[Rilles]

Source_Mystic's new obsession, Thinking he can change Leos mind/Leo bashing (warrning!!) -

[Truth]

2 hours ago, Source_Mystic said:

Lol facts for me ....... Facts do not work that way test do not work that way ..... Facts are the same for everyone no matter what. You do not get to choose. 

I am not the one creating alternative facts Leo is rather omiting the truth and replacing it with his own personal naritive. Nor will he reasearch test or even acknowledge the facts of the matter.  He chooses willed ignorance instead and as a leader that is dangerous.  

Leo,s stateents on his video that it is says "your brain is getting so much oxygen" this is false ... It is a fallacy he is wrong further more it is the exact opposite the brain is getting a lack of oxygen so much of a lack it is shutting down and not functioning properly.  

I did not choose this fact! It is true mechanism  that is causing the effects. I think people should have that information before starting this pracice. The fact is  you are starving your brain for oxygen untill it can no longer function as long as you are doing this tequinique.  Furthermore this fact is hidden so that people will use this. 

    As for the rest those are Leo,s short comings and if he can not face them well I guess he is not enlightened as everyone here thought. 

  This has nothing to do with dogma or  morality  it is not even really about Leo it is about telling people the truth what a breathing tequinique is and not misrepresenting it.  But I have come to terms that Leo will not admit  that he is wrong or  correct his behavior. If he wants to call induced hypoxia  excess oxygen saturation so be it. I show the proof of what I have said  and warned people that this could very well be dangerious espicaly if used for long periods of time or many  sessions. 

  I have gone so far as to quote experts with medical expertise far greater than mine To show and prove what I am saying.  I have seen no due diligence or valid counter argument .... as a matter of fact most of people here choose Leo's opinion over facts and that is dangerous.  Because he misrepresents holotropic/shamanic breathing  completely.  

I am sure Leo test his drugs to make sure what he has gotten is what he intends to take. You should know at the very least what is causing the effects. 

But please follow chrisma instead of facts ..... by all means let people create alternative facts which is just another term for a lie. Actual facts are verifiable testable and able to be reproduced.  

 Do your own reasearch do not trust others to do the work for you as So Many here have done.  

Also when debating the appropriate Responce is to research the topic and make a counter argument not atack the person personaly or deflect.... go do the work and comeback with a actual Responce. 99% of the people here can't or won't do that they are too busy agreeing with Leo.  

I have realized that at this point this is a complete waste of my time that I could be doing other things ..... If people will not do their own research so be it. 

I would rather think that most of the people here would make educated decisions based on facts. But it seems this place is just an extension of the world ...... The followers will follow and the leaders try to forge a better way. Followers do not question.  The problem is when leaders abuse there power and start rewriting facts to suit there own agenda. 

I would rather you would think for yourself but sheep will be sheep. 

 

Lol this ENTIRE POST just shows how little consciousness work you do. 

I'm not dismissing your points! you don't have to repeat them! 

At this point I'm just distracting you from turning inward to realize what I'm trying to point you to so I'm just gonna stop. 

Good luck Source_Mystic

Here's a good video to help you see what I'm pointing at if you're curious.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Truth