“Unearned consciousness is valueless” -David Deida

[Mulky]

How is that even possible, everything is unearned, nobody ever earned anything or didn't earn anything.  You're either conscious or you're not, you didn't cause it to happen.

[RichardY]

Might be some advantages to non-consciousness. Thinking of true multi-tasking, maybe like the hindu god Kali(the one with the skull garland and multi arms).

I wonder if it's conincidence... that you have Kalima in Islam and Kali in Hinduism, wikipedia inspired opinion, but still the continents didn't fit together at one time until like 90 years a go in  geography.... 

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by RichardY

[Leo Gura]

On 4/12/2018 at 1:22 PM, Slade said:

"Unearned"

Who's to judge what is and isn't earned?

You think your "hard work" is of your own doing??? You think somehow it isn't a gift from God? You think you stumbling upon yoga or meditation was your own doing and not a gift given to you? Such egotism!

Be careful acting as though you have a choice in how things unfold. You don't. "Earned" vs "unearned" is an egoic notion. Everything is the manifestation of Infinity and could not be otherwise.

Be grateful for any higher consciousness you come across, however it comes to you. Otherwise, it's like you're spitting in the face of God for giving you a gift. (Of course, you're free to do that too.)

P.S. While you're at it, you may as well stop meditation, self-inquiry, and yoga, because those are also "unearned". You stole those techniques from other people who invented them the hard way. You are just riding on their coattails like a lazy bum, looking for a shortcut to God, too weak-willed to carve a unique path through the jungle of delusion for yourself

Your entire life is unearned.

[YaNanNallari]

Even if it we disregard the "unearned" part then it is still so that you have to do the work and have the realizations to have a stable high consciousness state when you use psychedelics. So it is sort of irrelevant. Our situations in life are "unfair" so yes some will have an easier time and it is completely acceptable to use psychedelics responsibly to achieve higher consciousness.

[Markus]

On 4/13/2018 at 2:22 AM, Slade said:

I heard him say this awhile back and it makes me wonder if psychedelics are a trap or not. With him and other people like Peter Ralston being opposed to psychedelic use for spirituality it really makes me wonder. 

I’d like to hear yalls input on this. 

I doubt teachers are opposed to it because of "earning" consciousness. More likely they're opposed to it because it doesn't produce enlightenment.

[Matt8800]

23 minutes ago, Markus said:

I doubt teachers are opposed to it because of "earning" consciousness. More likely they're opposed to it because it doesn't produce enlightenment.

Many shamans for thousands of years would wholeheartedly disagree with that assumption

There is no one thing that "produces" enlightenment but many things can be factors that come together at the right time. With that said, people that have used psychedelics for spiritual work pretty much unanimously agree that it can be a powerful factor. The only people that dont believe that are the people that have not used psychedelics for spiritual work.

[Markus]

@Matt8800 I know plenty of people, myself included, that have used psychedelics in the past and don't hold them as a valid tool to reach states of abiding non-dual awareness, let alone true nirvana. I don't deny that people can "grow" spiritually and release traumas with these tools, but they don't get enlightened from them.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Markus said:

@Matt8800 I know plenty of people, myself included, that have used psychedelics in the past and don't hold them as a valid tool to reach states of abiding non-dual awareness, let alone true nirvana. I don't deny that people can "grow" spiritually and release traumas with these tools, but they don't get enlightened from them.

That's only because they don't know how to use them properly.

I have successfully use psychedelics to become conscious of every facet of nonduality. Total nonduality, beyond anything humanly imaginable. So much nonduality, that I see most enlightened masters now as not fully realized.

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

[Aimblack]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only because they don't know how to use them properly.

I have successfully use psychedelics to become conscious of every facet of nonduality. Total nonduality, beyond anything humanly imaginable. So much nonduality, that I see most enlightened mastered now as not fully realized.

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

I thought you were bullshitting when I heard you say that before I went to my Ayahuasca retreat, but I met a guy there who basically mirrored what you said and became completely enlightened within a year...granted he is pretty hardcore, doing iboga and shit but still.

[Leo Gura]

Oh, some fun gossip about David Deida.

I once went on a date with Tony Robbin's copywriter. She knew all the dirty secrets. She told me that Tony Robbins had to physically kick David Deida off his cruise ship because he was getting handsy with Tony's wife. Lol

Oh the delicious irony of it all...

[Torkys]

On 2018. 04. 15. at 5:25 AM, Leo Gura said:

While you're at it, you may as well stop meditation, self-inquiry, and yoga, because those are also "unearned". You stole those techniques from other people who invented them the hard way.

And even the people who created these techniques stole the Intelligence from God to create them

[Markus]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only because they don't know how to use them properly.

I have successfully use psychedelics to become conscious of every facet of nonduality. Total nonduality, beyond anything humanly imaginable. So much nonduality, that I see most enlightened masters now as not fully realized.

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

It's true that next to nobody is fully realized, obviously not David Deida or even Ralston. I don't deny psychedelics can produce becoming conscious of stuff, however, I know of nobody who has achieved a high level of abiding non-dual awareness with them. And if it's not abiding I don't see why they'd be an effective tool for enlightenment. With a cautious approach it is an array of amazing experiences and glimpses, of which hardly anything sticks. With a hardcore approach one messes up their subtle body and chakras and ends up in a weird state with weird energy like Martin Ball. I think psychedelics have certain dangers that don't become apparent until people develop a subtle enough sensitivity to energy. Until then it seems all good.

[Guest username]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only because they don't know how to use them properly.

I have successfully use psychedelics to become conscious of every facet of nonduality. Total nonduality, beyond anything humanly imaginable. So much nonduality, that I see most enlightened masters now as not fully realized.

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

Curious--Whom do you regard as fully realized?

Edited April 16, 2018 by username

[Slade]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only because they don't know how to use them properly.

I have successfully use psychedelics to become conscious of every facet of nonduality. Total nonduality, beyond anything humanly imaginable. So much nonduality, that I see most enlightened masters now as not fully realized.

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

Do you think psychedelics are only capable of giving you short lived non dual experiences? Or would they be able to give you permanent non duality, even when you’re sober? 

[Guest Quanty]

Psychedelics are a tool. Use them to release blockages faster or block yourself deeper. It is up to you. 

My recommendation is for those who already had some sort of awakening going, so they can escape the fantasy faster.

I do not recommend psychedelics fo the mentally preoccupied, intellectuals or believers in higher powers. 

 

 

<3

[Prabhaker]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:02 PM, Leo Gura said:

She told me that Tony Robbins had to physically kick David Deida off his cruise ship because he was getting handsy with Tony's wife.

Tony Robbins knows how to tap into unstoppable energy!

 

[Otogi]

On 16.4.2018 at 8:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

David Deida, for example, is not fully realized.

I wouldn't even call Deida a master, not even a little bit.

On 16.4.2018 at 9:32 AM, Leo Gura said:

Oh, some fun gossip about David Deida.

I once went on a date with Tony Robbin's copywriter. She knew all the dirty secrets. She told me that Tony Robbins had to physically kick David Deida off his cruise ship because he was getting handsy with Tony's wife. Lol

Oh the delicious irony of it all...

Somehow this doesn't come as a surprise for me. When I first read his book "Way of the superior man" I already picked up some weird vibrations from him through his work. In other words I thought his book and him are really off putting for a reason. This is only confirmation, now I understand why. Thank you for this Leo.

(btw this is why I always recommend "How to be a 3% man" from good old Coach Corey Wayne when someone is looking for relationship advice and on how to be "a real man" instead of Deidas work. But first and foremost of course I will advocate celibacy and monkhood.)

[Leo Gura]

14 hours ago, username said:

Curious--Whom do you regard as fully realized?

Ralston, Jed, Sadhguru, and a few others. It's hard to be certain because there are so many facets, degrees, and nuances to nonduality, and different ways of talking about it.

[herghly]

@Leo Gura What about Om Swami?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, herghly said:

@Leo Gura What about Om Swami?

Can't say. Haven't read enough of his work to tell how deeply he graps nonduality.