“Unearned consciousness is valueless” -David Deida

[herghly]

@Leo Gura I hate to  keep asking but this one im very curious about.  What about Martin Ball?

 

I've read all his books and I find him an interesting case, i know he does not believe in many of the spiritual powers you know speak about

[Leo Gura]

@herghly I don't know.

Spiritual powers are a seperate thing from realzing total nonduality.

I am talking about total nonduality here, not spiritual powers.

I do not understand why Martin does all that energy movement stuff. To me it is irrelevant to nonduality. I guess that's just his way. For me it is not like that.

[Markus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I do not understand why Martin does all that energy movement stuff. To me it is irrelevant to nonduality. I guess that's just his way. For me it is not like that.

I have a theory about that, based on the experience of two acquaintances as well as energy readings of them + Martin Ball. One is a case of obvious abuse where 5meo was mixed with another psychedelic, the other one just did it a dozen times in about a year (if I remember correctly + don't know dosages). Both had a kundalini activation, the former went through months of a horrible dark night and the latter had an insane amount of kriyas (energy movements) pretty much constantly.

What I think is going on is the substances (most likely in excess) releasing a lot of energy in the system, more than the body can deal with, and that damaging the subtle body and leaving it vulnerable to energetic influences, which then allows astral energies, that literally feel foreign and out of one's control, influence the body and mind. And I'm quite sure that's where the idea of negative energies, entities or demons "possessing" a person comes from - it's a projection onto how it feels like. 

Martin Ball mentioning doing weird things like the God voice and barking like a dog sounds exactly like that. And the two people I know struggled with experiences of possession and even attacks at various points. I know people who can sense people's energies and have noticed a similar presence of foreign "entities" in Martin, the people I mentioned, and a few teachers. In most cases it seems simply weird rather than flat-out bad for the person afflicted but in worse cases it's quite hellish.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Markus

[Leo Gura]

@Markus That may well be true.

But for me, I've just recently done 5 deep, back-to-back 5-MeO-DMT trips and I do not experience any such things. I just become fully awake.

Of course one big difference with me is, I don't smoke 5-MeO. I think smoking might over-stimulate the system. Rectal administration is by far the superior method in my opinion. It is very gradual and smooth. There is almost no energetic shock to the system. It feels very healthy and there is much more time for integration and understanding.

I do not do any kind of body movements or barking or such things.

I think method of administration might be very important here. And also, one's past karma and level of development. Immature and neurotic people will not be able to handle the nuclear-sized truth-bombs that 5-MeO drops.

Or maybe Martin and I just have different styles, different minds, different personalities, different life experiences and therefore different ways of expressing the same basic thing.

I agree that 5-MeO, especially when taken in large doses and non-rectally, has the potential to cause energetic damage and overload.

[Key Elements]

@Leo Gura The story of the 10 Ox Herding Pics ends in The Cloth Bag Monk, not Riding the Ox Backwards. The Maslow pyramid can't be turned upside down. That's why the Shaolin monks have mastery as their foundation. Are most of them, if not all of them, even going to see and be Absolute Infinity? Maybe, maybe not, but that's just the icing on the cake. It's not the cake itself. Discovering a fulfilling life is the cake. Non-duality is the same as duality. That's why life is a blessing and is always inviting us back to live it to the fullest. In other words, the entire Maslow is interconnected to self-transendence. Don't even think of skipping the foundation and expect to get awarded. What is life telling you to do in a non-egoic way? There are indications in our earth realm that points out the Absolute Infinity -- those footprints, those "ah-ha" moments, which the rational mind can't explain or even comprehend when one encounters them. Are they tangible? Yes, of course. Some are. There can be witnesses other than yourself. They are out of the ordinary. Those can't be ignored. This is how life invites us back to live life.

Absolute Infinity comes back to the ego with the awakening. Incorporate this as wisdom, not an obsession. Life is a school. You can't just end it and expect nirvana. If you don't do well, you can't graduate. If this is a riddle for you, solve it.

[AlwaysBeNice]

10 hours ago, Markus said:

What I think is going on is the substances (most likely in excess) releasing a lot of energy in the system, more than the body can deal with, and that damaging the subtle body and leaving it vulnerable to energetic influences, which then allows astral energies, that literally feel foreign and out of one's control, influence the body and mind. And I'm quite sure that's where the idea of negative energies, entities or demons "possessing" a person comes from - it's a projection onto how it feels like. 

Martin Ball mentioning doing weird things like the God voice and barking like a dog sounds exactly like that. And the two people I know struggled with experiences of possession and even attacks at various points. I know people who can sense people's energies and have noticed a similar presence of foreign "entities" in Martin, the people I mentioned, and a few teachers. In most cases it seems simply weird rather than flat-out bad for the person afflicted but in worse cases it's quite hellish.

You cannot damage a subtle body, it's like air, you can only restrict the flow of it through your physical body through unconscious fear.

Also I don't buy into stories of possession, perhaps just as in physical reality, unconscious weak minded people can be influenced, and yet even if that would happen, it would ultimately be for the sake of waking you up in the play and won't violate your free will.

Not to mention the whole ego structure of conditioned emotional suppression is based on denial, and just as people come up with excuses why they shouldn't let go or be themselves freely, this fits that idea. 

[Viking]

On 4/13/2018 at 3:41 AM, Nahm said:

@Slade Enlightenment is for you only. Every person, relative to you, is just one opinion, one vote. Listen to someone who has done psych’s, listen to someone who has not. Listen to someone who meditates, listen to someone who has not. Talk to someone who has done the practices (foundation for integration) & syc’s, and someone who has done neither. Same for all else. You choose your path. My vote, try both, try all. Be open. What you don’t experience, doesn’t exist for you here. Your consciousness is in your own hands. No one dies for you. No one lives for you. No one is coming. Just don’t fuck yourself by pretending you know about things that you have not experienced yourself. Don’t let your fear bend your honesty over. That an author is telling you about something you haven’t experienced - is part of the illusion!

THIS.
following techniques will never ever never ever ever make someone enlightened. in order to get enlightened you have to do your own thing, go your own way to enlightenment using intuition and higher intelligence. I say that because techniques are not truth and no spiritual path is truth, only you can know the truth.

[Markus]

@AlwaysBeNice the first point is semantics, I could as well say it causes physical damage. The other stuff is demonstrably false, though I hope you won't have to find out via personal experience. I get why you'd not believe it since these things are quite rare.