“Unearned consciousness is valueless” -David Deida

[Slade]

I heard him say this awhile back and it makes me wonder if psychedelics are a trap or not. With him and other people like Peter Ralston being opposed to psychedelic use for spirituality it really makes me wonder. 

I’d like to hear yalls input on this. 

[Nahm]

@Slade How could you know for yourself?

If you want to know about playing the piano, go ask someone who has never played a piano, but nonetheless has a strong opinion on it. Someone who assumes and speculates would be ideal as a resource for you. Makes sense, right?  Of course not. 

[robdl]

1 minute ago, Bane said:

Fuck David Deida. Fuck Peter Ralston.

Psychedelic revelations are earned, not given.

Yeah, those easy, unearned psychedelic revelations where you pass through existential terror, prior trauma, and literal insanity. 

[Slade]

45 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Slade How could you know for yourself?

If you want to know about playing the piano, go ask someone who has never played a piano, but nonetheless has a strong opinion on it. Someone who assumes and speculates would be ideal as a resource for you. Makes sense, right?  Of course not. 

Right but is there a difference when it comes to someone who is actually enlightened talking about psychedelics opposed to someone who’s trying to get enlightened using them? 

[Nahm]

@Slade Enlightenment is for you only. Every person, relative to you, is just one opinion, one vote. Listen to someone who has done psych’s, listen to someone who has not. Listen to someone who meditates, listen to someone who has not. Talk to someone who has done the practices (foundation for integration) & syc’s, and someone who has done neither. Same for all else. You choose your path. My vote, try both, try all. Be open. What you don’t experience, doesn’t exist for you here. Your consciousness is in your own hands. No one dies for you. No one lives for you. No one is coming. Just don’t fuck yourself by pretending you know about things that you have not experienced yourself. Don’t let your fear bend your honesty over. That an author is telling you about something you haven’t experienced - is part of the illusion!

[Slade]

@Nahm ?

[herghly]

taking psychedelics is only 50 % the other 50% is integration 

[Sevi]

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Slade Enlightenment is for you only. Every person, relative to you, is just one opinion, one vote. Listen to someone who has done psych’s, listen to someone who has not. Listen to someone who meditates, listen to someone who has not. Talk to someone who has done the practices (foundation for integration) & syc’s, and someone who has done neither. Same for all else. You choose your path. My vote, try both, try all. Be open. What you don’t experience, doesn’t exist for you here. Your consciousness is in your own hands. No one dies for you. No one lives for you. No one is coming. Just don’t fuck yourself by pretending you know about things that you have not experienced yourself. Don’t let your fear bend your honesty over. That an author is telling you about something you haven’t experienced - is part of the illusion!

Very well said @Nahm

And I agree with @herghly , psychedelics are the half way.

In Rumi's book there is a short story about a donkey which goes to travel around the world and sees it all.. when he comes back, his friends ask: what did you see?!! What did you see?!!

And he goes 'oh! Nothing! Just watermelon rinds everywhere!'

 

So, even if you get the chance to see it all, when you are not ready to receive the meaning or the essence, whatever you experience is not more than a watermelon rind.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Sevi

[phoenix666]

5 hours ago, robdl said:

Yeah, those easy, unearned psychedelic revelations where you pass through existential terror, prior trauma, and literal insanity. 

this. exactly my thoughts. you have to work, to practically fight your way through hell to find a glimpse. and true, I also think psychedelics are just a part, maybe the icing on the cake which gives a last push. without all the other practices like awareness, grounding ecc. I don't think they'd do much in the long term..

 

 

[Nahm]

@Sevi Thanks.

@herghly Yes!

@phoenix666 absolutely. No wonder some are scared as hell of trying them. The ego smells that threat a mile away.

[phoenix666]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

The ego smells that threat a mile away.

hahah I came to know this very well. when deciding whether to trip or not it's very tricky to discern real intuition/wisdom from 'just' a panicking ego

[Matt8800]

21 hours ago, Slade said:

I heard him say this awhile back and it makes me wonder if psychedelics are a trap or not. With him and other people like Peter Ralston being opposed to psychedelic use for spirituality it really makes me wonder. 

I’d like to hear yalls input on this. 

I was one of those people that used to know I needed to meditate but just couldnt find the discipline. Long story short, I tried DMT in an attempt to shed some light on my obsession with the nature of consciousness. When I tried DMT, I knew that all suffering was an illusion, love, beauty and being present are the most important values and knew in a new way that meditation would become an important part of my life. 

That was about a eighteen months ago. I have meditated every day since and average about an hour a day. I used to be depressed and anxious and now I can say I rarely have a negative thought or emotion. I am truly happy and love my life now.

You can judge the tree by the fruit on it. Its a good thing I didnt listen to people that say that psychedelics arent helpful otherwise I would have been undoubtedly stuck where I was. Nobody else's unsubstantiated opinions and biases will ever change my reality.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Matt8800

[Nahm]

@Matt8800 Kicked me in the feels man. Thanks for the share. ♥️

[Maxi]

@Slade ''Unearned conciousness is valueless'', did Deida actually say this about psychadelics, or did he just say it with something else in mind? If he did say it talking about psychadelics it sound very weird to me.

[Matt8800]

58 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Matt8800 Kicked me in the feels man. Thanks for the share. ♥️

Thanks, I feel strongly about psychedelics because of how they have changed my life. It seems strange to me that people with no experience with psychedelics would deride them. They used to kind of scare me but my attitude was that there must be something there if so many people are convinced it changed them for the better. Maybe Ralston and Sadhguru should watch Leo's video on radical open mindedness

Edited April 13, 2018 by Matt8800

[Nahm]

@Matt8800  maybe they should! 

 I hear you man. At one point I was suicidal and basically just an ignorant materialist. I know that I was but I honestly can’t actually remember it.   Can’t invoke those emotions anymore. What a ride brutha. What a ride. 

[Matt8800]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Matt8800  maybe they should! 

 I hear you man. At one point I was suicidal and basically just an ignorant materialist. I know that I was but I honestly can’t actually remember it.   Can’t invoke those emotions anymore. What a ride brutha. What a ride. 

I hear you. I was an arrogant, judgmental, alcoholic, religious, cold-hearted republican whose sole goal in life was making more money and getting laid as often as humanly possible. I was miserable lol

Edited April 13, 2018 by Matt8800

[Nahm]

@Matt8800 ? wow! That’s a HUGE full circle!

[Bobby]

Ego. 

Who earns anything?

[RichardY]

Is enlightenment better than non-enlightenment?

Could taking psychedlics be considered a form of spiritual suicide?

If not, what preparation should be done before hand?

Wondered if it might be like changing gears on a car without the clutch.