STUCK in stage red of spiral dynamics

[SuperLuigi]

A bit of background: I have been following actualized. org for a couple of years now and have consumed plenty of theory. I have balanced this out with practice and aim to meditate at least 20 minutes per day but sometimes up to one hour.

However, despite all of this work I am stuck in stage red of spiral dynamics. Rage is a common emotion as is the desire (and usually acted upon trait) to dominate in various ways.

I have misophonia which really doesn't help, it triggers a lot of the irritability. But I'm not here to make excuses.

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My question: What can I do to try and get out of this? Practically speaking? At present, I am beginning to question the value of this path to self-improvement, sometimes leaning towards the idea that genetic pre-dispositions lock us into a pre-determined path regardless of efforts to change this.

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Just as a preemptive comment: I already do BJJ 5 - 6 times a week as well as weight-training so definitely don't need further physical 'outlet'.

[SFRL]

Go one up. Stage Orange. What are the values of stage Orange? And work on improving those. 

[d0ornokey]

@SFRL you mean blue*?

[SuperLuigi]

11 minutes ago, SFRL said:

Go one up. Stage Orange. What are the values of stage Orange? And work on improving those. 

Right. It's like saying "how do I master the guitar" and answering "just get really good".

[Erlend K]

Sometimes it sucks, but you really have to just embrace your struggle. There is simply no good alternatives to it. And remember that the core of this path is not blind acceptance of some mental model/thoughsystem or practice of the correct techiques. Rather it's an uncompromising persuit of truth, wherever it may lead you.

If you have been meditating for a long time and see no improvements, it might be time to ask yourself whether or not meditation is likely to be an effective tool for dealing with your particular issues. To keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result becomes unwise after a while. For many of us meditation can become the hammer that makes every problem seem like a nail, but remember: it is not a magic pill that can solve any problem. It might be an idea to ask yourself what alternative strategies you might follow. If you are not currently seeing a therapist, finding one that specializes in anger management sounds like a good idea.

Aditionally you should ask yourself why you assume spiral dynamics to be a useful model. Is it possible that you accept it simply becourse you like it, and want it to be true? Is viewing yourself as "stuck in stage red" in any way useful for you? When evaluating a model like this I think a good rule of thumb is to check whether it is supported by academics or healthcare professionals, or is it mostly pushed by people who want to sell you something? If so, that should be a red flag. Not necesarily sufficient reason to dismiss the model, but enough of a red flag to make you question it.

[Truth]

@SuperLuigi Focus on being more selfless vs being selfish. Focus more on compassion and understanding for other people, try to step into their shoes, help them help you.

54 minutes ago, SuperLuigi said:

At present, I am beginning to question the value of this path to self-improvement, sometimes leaning towards the idea that genetic pre-dispositions lock us into a pre-determined path regardless of efforts to change this.

Don't use this as an excuse or a limiting belief to not improve yourself just because it's hard to change, change fundamentally goes against your entire life agenda, your natural desires and your ego, it will be the hardest thing you'll ever change in your life. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Truth

[Toby]

Rage doesn't mean you are in red. You probably wouldn't even post here with being overall in red. Depending on your makeup, for example an Enneagram type 8 would experience lot of desire, rage, lust and need to dominate people even in higher stages, even in tier 2. Not to say that you are type 8; just as an example that your experiences doesn't always define where in spiral dynamics you are.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@SuperLuigi As far as I remember depending on how old you are you can move up stages quite fast with meditation, in case you are in university and are under 25 you have good chances to move up one stage every two years when people meditate for one hour a day otherwise it takes 5 years in case you are older then 25. Wilber said in one of his audiobooks, that people do not grow anymore in these stages after they turn 25 naturally. Yet, when they turn 50 or are somewhere around 50ish years old. Then they start growing again naturally.

Also, shadow work can help when people move up stages and there can be parts that are not fully integrated from previous stages or are some sort of residuals from the old stage, which can be called shadow elements. So, integrating anything that triggers you with any sort of shadow work ( I only tired one technique, which works for me) can help you to include behaviours, perceptions and emotions quite well, in a healthy way. IMO

Take this "advice" with a grain of salt, I am not sure how Ken Wilbers Map and Spiral Dynamics are related or if they are the same. He references it in his audiobooks, yet by reading their descriptions they seem similar.

Also, weightlifting is good for growing in these stages, so you could be growing quite fast. Still, meditation is most likely the pivotal point for growth.

I can recommend the audiobooks Cosmic Consciousness for a big picture of Ken Wilbers work or for a more pratical approach ( still I do not like this audiobook ) Integral Meditation. I also enjoyed Integral Transformation, yet he mostly talks about shadow there. (All audiobooks are from Ken Wilber

Also, people are not on one stage solely, they move through all the stages where they are at. Yet, people have a center of development where they gravitate towards, so you could be tapping into red on a few occasions. I notice it when I do sports or when people use their power or authority over others. 

Note: I am biased by only consuming things from one author, I did some free only test (which where only available in german for what ever reason) about spirial dynamics. By reading the descriptions on their site by hearing youtube video and audiobooks from Wilber the descriptions about the stages seem to be the same.

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by ValiantSalvatore

[SFRL]

@d0ornokey sorry you are right I meant blue. 

[SFRL]

3 hours ago, SuperLuigi said:

Right. It's like saying "how do I master the guitar" and answering "just get really good".

I doubt you are really that stage Red.

I don't think some anger issues on itself make people stage Red. You are probably mainly stage Orange like most people. 

Anger is a secondary emotion. It's not really an emotion that exists by itself. It's rather an emotion felt after an other emotion is felt already. 

Like fear/anxiety. Then the secondary emotion felt after that is anger. As a defense mechanism I guess. 

Honestly working out that much and doing combatsports it is possible that you get more aggressive because of raised testosterone and whatever other hormones and chemicals you produce working out and fighting all the time. I knew it did for me when I was still active boxing. 

Another thing is the mental aspect of it. Like you are more likely to get physical when you get angry. Because when you are sparring and you get in trouble what do you do? You start fighting back harder, you start throwing punches. 

So now in real life if someone corners you (figuratively speaking) what are you likely to do? Start throwing punches because that is how you are programmed trough sparring. When you get in trouble start throwing punches. 

I wouldn't stop working out if I were you because the pros far outweigh the cons. 

But it's still a good thing to understand the mechanics behind it.

Also find a way to program your mind how to deal with anger, and more importantly the initial emotion that triggers anger next, in life outside the gym. 

[d0ornokey]

I also highly doubt you are red too, just an intuition 

Edited April 12, 2018 by d0ornokey

[YaNanNallari]

Feel the anger fully but don't follow it

[Truth]

@Toby @SFRL @d0ornokey @Bane

[SFRL]

@Truth ???

What are you talking about dude? 

I am sharing my first hand experiences with anger and now "the map is not the territory"?

Edited April 13, 2018 by SFRL

[Truth]

@Bane ??

@SFRL I'm just referring to all this back and forth between what the stages are/other models and where @SuperLuigi is at in them.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Truth

[SFRL]

@Truth yeah I get that. 

[SuperLuigi]

Hey, awesome points from everyone and thanks @SFRL for your comments in particular. It is certainly easy to switch off the 'fighters mindset' after training sometimes. I hope there are some practical techniques that can be learnt to overcome this stage...

Edited April 17, 2018 by SuperLuigi

[Guest Quanty]

Listen to the background of the noise of your ears tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, while you put the main focus on breath, while you poop and pee and orgasm on red  until you connect with blue (listen to the ears on blue first and in all the body) and so on. 

Learn to in-jaculate and never again e-jaculate unless you must destroy blockages or you want to impregnate a woman. 

 

[Faceless]

Measuring enlightenment. 

Interesting ? 

[NickOleksiak]

I have misophonia as well. It flipped me out that you mentioned since it's not a common diagnosis. Do you know about Tom Dozier? He's a major studier of the disorder. He's got a home office in the San Francisco area. I'd recommend Googling his address and giving him a visit if you can. He can offer some great advice and tips for coping. I personally got some printable paperwork I could show to my University Disabilities Office so I could get a special private testing room (I had major issues with taking quizzes and tests because of distracting trigger noises.)

Anyways, I think physiological disorders are a grey area that Spiral Dynamics may not account for well. Misophonia is something, at least that we know of right now, that can't be cured. Agitation levels can be mitigated to a degree with medication. I take Tramadol, and it helps deal with triggers a good amount. I'd recommend telling your physician about it and trying it out for yourself. Just don't take more than 2 at a time; it can cause seizures if taken recklessly. There's a small crash as well, though not as much as something like Adderall (which I've taken before).

Think of your situation like trying to label an enlightened master that just so happens to be schizophrenic or bipolar. Does that illness lower their stage? I don't think so necessarily. It can make them ACT in lower stages when their illness kicks in and they don't properly medicate. The choice to not medicate would more likely fall on the dynamics scale. If they have the understandings of tier-two stages, I'd think they're still tier-two. Like Leo said, tier-two doesn't make you scott-free of problems. Einstein couldn't tie his own fucking shoes. EINSTEIN. 

The illness is an obstacle, perhaps a necessary one if look at it that way. Misophonia has sucked for me in social situations but also has allowed me to focus on solitary activities, like my musical composition career and meditation. I have few qualms about being alone for days at a time. It's a reframing of a normally "negative" situation that may help you.

ALSO, do you have high relative or absolute pitch? I have absolute pitch and think it and misophonia are correlated since they're both sound-related.