I'm so lost and confused over Enlightenment.

[Sempiternity]

I've been watching the videos. So, all there is, is a nothingness that has manifested never-ending field of consciousness. The physical world is not real and does not exist. We do not exist. All of it is an illusion. Nothing exists, other than consciousness (a consciousness, without any sense of Self or stories or perceptions). So how does this help my life at all? If I do the work and disappear Self and the physical world, then what? I don't exist, people do not exist, the world does not exist. I can't enjoy family, they don't exist. I can't enjoy sex, as there is no self to enjoy it. I can't enjoy anything, as I do not exist and nothing exists. I'm just consciousness, without any sense of anything else (as it's all an illusion). How is this a good thing? If this is the case, I guess I'd rather stay in the illusion and enjoy the illusion.  I guess I'm confused at why people would want to pursue the Truth, if the truth is that we are nothing, have no control over anything, and nothing exists. What benefit is there is realizing this? 

[aEOf]

Ever heard Muhammad was a sex freak? Ramana Maharshi's body had to have been conceived at some point. Jesus probably got jerked off a couple of times. Most human males get that at some point. Everything that you see, goes. Siddhartha had a kid and loved his wife before he set out. Jesus said to not do what you don't hate, written down in the "Gospel of Thomas". Your mind is attempting to understand beforehand what it has not discovered for itself. And it will forever be asking these kinds of questions before discovery. You actually do not know any of the points above. Ralston even says there is no survival benefit of the truth, but it is what's true? Dunno. That's all I could come up with. I hope this helps. If not, trash it, please. 

 

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

I guess I'm confused at why people would want to pursue the Truth, if the truth is that we are nothing

Buddhism died in India, and one of the basic reasons was Buddha’s way of putting his philosophy. All other philosophies were so positivistic, and all their positivism was turning into stronger and stronger egos. He moved to the other extreme, seeing that positivism is going to give you egoistic ideas — and that is a hindrance between you and existence. To stop this idea he became totally negative.

Many came to Buddha and turned away, because nobody can make nothingness be his life’s achievement — for what? So much discipline and so much great trouble in getting into meditation just to find out that you are not… strange kind of man this Gautam Buddha. We are good as we are, what is the need of digging so deep that you find there is nothing? Even if we are dreaming, at least there is something.

You are nothing. You don’t have a self because you are part of a great self, the whole. You cannot have any separate, private, self of your own.It is a tremendous achievement to understand that you are part of the whole, that the whole belongs to you, that you belong to the whole. 

[aurum]

@Jed Vassallo

You're confused because you don't yet have the relevant experiences to make sense of the theory.

Studying the theory is important. Keep doing it. But more important is that you actually do the spiritual work, e.g mediation, yoga etc. Things will be much more clear then.

[Sempiternity]

3 minutes ago, aurum said:

@Jed Vassallo

You're confused because you don't yet have the relevant experiences to make sense of the theory.

Studying the theory is important. Keep doing it. But more important is that you actually do the spiritual work, e.g mediation, yoga etc. Things will be much more clear then.

That's exactly my point though. Why would I dedicate my life to learning and achieving Enlightenment, if enlightenment is the literal destruction of everything it means to be a human, and give me infinite nothingness? You can say 'you won't know till you know, so just trust it's good', but my original point was why would anyone actually want this? 

[abrakamowse]

@Jed Vassallo  In the beginning is really confusing. Our mind is not used to think differently. There are concepts and ideas that sometimes for the mind sound crazy, but they aren't.

[abrakamowse]

6 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

That's exactly my point though. Why would I dedicate my life to learning and achieving Enlightenment, if enlightenment is the literal destruction of everything it means to be a human, and give me infinite nothingness? You can say 'you won't know till you know, so just trust it's good', but my original point was why would anyone actually want this? 

In my experience I always felt that my ID created from the world, was not me. I am just finding my true nature. And that can't be done with the mind, you only will create another "I" that won't be who you really are. Just different, but not your true self.

The destruction, is not of or about what it means to be human, human is to understand we all are one and love each other. I don't think that's what we see in the world. I think the destruction of what is to be human can happen if we continue going and treating others in the egoistic way of the false self.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited April 12, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Vingger]

why you think that you can't enjoy the illusion after realizing it

[Monkey-man]

There's Truth of ultimate reality of Alfa but there's also Truth of life of Alfa and omega which is the real Truth and real purpose

Go full circle. You want ultimate enjoyment, but for this one need to go to Truth of life after he realizes truth of ultimate reality

If one man can find Truth of life it will lead humanity to literal paradise or at least make it closer. Jesus did it but he didn't yet finish his mission because that's the divine plan.

Not much people went till the Truth of life, actually probably only Jesus did, among 'famous' people. And maybe some saints.

Most gurus realized truth of ultimate reality, but truth of life is beyond that

I am the Truth - Way - Life. (C) Jesus 

Truth of life is the path, your whole life is the path, life the game, the matrix, and you are potential savior

[Sempiternity]

14 minutes ago, Vingger said:

why you think that you can't enjoy the illusion after realizing it

Because there will be no 'I'/'me' to enjoy it or anything. That's the point. 

[Sempiternity]

12 minutes ago, Monkey-man said:

There's Truth of ultimate reality of Alfa but there's also Truth of life of Alfa and omega which is the real Truth and real purpose

Go full circle. You want ultimate enjoyment, but for this one need to go to Truth of life after he realizes truth of ultimate reality

If one man can find Truth of life it will lead humanity to literal paradise or at least make it closer. Jesus did it but he didn't yet finish his mission because that's the divine plan.

Not much people went till the Truth of life, actually probably only Jesus did, among 'famous' people. And maybe some saints.

Most gurus realized truth of ultimate reality, but truth of life is beyond that

I am the Truth - Way - Life. (C) Jesus 

Truth of life is the path, your whole life is the path, life the game, the matrix, and you are potential savior

This is a forum for the teachings of Actualized.org. It has nothing to do with Jesus. Please keep your religion to religious circles, and let us who are interested in this form of Enlightenment to discuss its merits. 

[Vingger]

@Jed Vassallo There is no me in enjoyment,
you are not an entity separate from laughter
as the life that you are in the body and in the mind you experience yourself as joy, laughter

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

That's exactly my point though. Why would I dedicate my life to learning and achieving Enlightenment, if enlightenment is the literal destruction of everything it means to be a human, and give me infinite nothingness? You can say 'you won't know till you know, so just trust it's good', but my original point was why would anyone actually want this? 

You have a good point. Enlightenment needs a better marketing team.

Here's been my experience so far.

No, enlightenment does not mean the end of everything human. Sorry Jed McKenna fans.

To me, enlightenment is what it actually means to be alive. That shit you think is life is not life. People are in a trance of social conditioning and past traumas, and they have no idea who they are or what is true about reality.

The more I go through this process, the more things just seem to get better and better.

I'm able to communicate in a more effective way. I'm able to accomplish my goals easier. I'm able to effect more people in a positive way.

And maybe most important, you really start to feel like you've found true peace, authenticity and a love for all of life.

I don't even really like the word "enlightenment". I almost think a better phrase would be "becoming normal".

That's because to people who are more awake, people who are asleep basically just seem crazy. But not even in a judgmental way, more like a "why are you doing this to yourself" kind of way.

Does that mean this process is easy and not emotionally challenging? NO.

This work is some of the hardest you will ever do in your life. Your old beliefs, negative thought patterns and emotional wounds aren't going down without a fight. But I also haven't found anything that is nearly rewarding.

That's why I keep at it everyday. I don't even care if I hit some mythical point where I'm fully enlightened or if that's even possible. I just know there's no arguing with the results of putting in the work.

At the end of the day, you don't have to believe me. You're either ready to wake up or not. But considering you're on this forum and drawing out this kind of response from me, I'd say you're already there.

[Nahm]

@Jed Vassallo What do you mean when you say nothing? What was your direct experience of nothing like?

[pluto]

[Sempiternity]

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Jed Vassallo What do you mean when you say nothing? What was your direct experience of nothing like?

I'm going directly off of Leo's videos. Namely the one on there is no brain, there is no free will, and the ones on infinity. According to these videos, there is no physical world. The whole world and everything in it, is a hallucination made by infinite consciousness, that is also nothingness. I do not know what nothingness experience is like, since I have not done the 10,000 hours of work it supposedly takes to experience it. Point of the post was, why would I want to experience it? 

[Sempiternity]

24 minutes ago, aurum said:

You have a good point. Enlightenment needs a better marketing team.

Here's been my experience so far.

No, enlightenment does not mean the end of everything human. Sorry Jed McKenna fans.

To me, enlightenment is what it actually means to be alive. That shit you think is life is not life. People are in a trance of social conditioning and past traumas, and they have no idea who they are or what is true about reality.

The more I go through this process, the more things just seem to get better and better.

I'm able to communicate in a more effective way. I'm able to accomplish my goals easier. I'm able to effect more people in a positive way.

And maybe most important, you really start to feel like you've found true peace, authenticity and a love for all of life.

I don't even really like the word "enlightenment". I almost think a better phrase would be "becoming normal".

That's because to people who are more awake, people who are asleep basically just seem crazy. But not even in a judgmental way, more like a "why are you doing this to yourself" kind of way.

Does that mean this process is easy and not emotionally challenging? NO.

This work is some of the hardest you will ever do in your life. Your old beliefs, negative thought patterns and emotional wounds aren't going down without a fight. But I also haven't found anything that is nearly rewarding.

That's why I keep at it everyday. I don't even care if I hit some mythical point where I'm fully enlightened or if that's even possible. I just know there's no arguing with the results of putting in the work.

At the end of the day, you don't have to believe me. You're either ready to wake up or not. But considering you're on this forum and drawing out this kind of response from me, I'd say you're already there.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. To me, this is the old paradigm of enlightenment. What I've been learning for years. Basically how to make your life better, yourself more happy and how to be love. But, all of Actualized.org's videos tell us that all of that is a illusion. There is no Self, there is no such thing as love, there is no physical world. There is no being happier, cause there is no you to be happy. There is no use in better communication skills, as there are no people to communicate to. It's all a hallucination. So either Leo is right, and we are just nothingness and nothing in this life matter not one bit. Or the old paradigm is right, and I should continue to try and make my life better. 

[Sempiternity]

23 minutes ago, pluto said:

There is no mind. Watch Leo's video on 'Why Brains Do Not Exist'.

[Faceless]

I'm so lost and confused over Enlightenment.

Stop watching the videos and reading what others have said and explore yourself. 

Second hand knowledge and conformity to abstractions leads you knowhere. 

Exploring yourslef very deeply is essential

Its the only way?

No body can help you but you. 

Thats the good news?

[kieranperez]

2 hours ago, aurum said:

do the spiritual work