Consciousness is an other illusion?

[Spinoza]

Hi everyone,

I see many people everywhere on the internet, linking consciousness with the word "The truth"

I think that every state is the human mind is an illusion, like even when you feel enlightened, maybe you are just depersonalized, and you feel less pain and mental suffering.  at that moment, you think you are mon conscious and you can see thing better but you are just looking at "reality" from an other illusionary perspective, i think we are not able to see reality, and we will never understand its meaning,  cause it's always subjective to what state you are in the moment. like the degree of consciousness is not always the same, sometimes we can be more clear because we not don't feel so emotional or attached to things, but it's doesn't mean it's the truth nature of our being, like nothing has a true meaning, and the meaning we give, depend on which state(level of consciousness) we are in.  

What i mean, is that any level of wisdom/consciousness even if it makes life/mind healthier is not an 100% absolute or that we are seeing the truth. because our mind is always trying to give a meaning to every experience and if it's pleasant it consider it as the truth

I hope that my post is not too vague,

Ps: this is just a thought [ "Maybe" ]

[Ether]

Our words couldnt help you as much as your own experience  

[molosku]

I feel like you are mixing up what "mind", "consciousness" and "state (of mind)" are or what those words point to. I recommend reading/listening some Rubert Spira if that is the case. 

[Spinoza]

25 minutes ago, Ether said:

Our words couldnt help you as much as your own experience  

I don't mean that experiencing high moment of consciousness is not possible or is not good, but its still subjective, and if it's subjective so we can't call it "seeing the truth" or our real nature , the topic is complexe, i hope you understood what i mean

23 minutes ago, molosku said:

I feel like you are mixing up what "mind", "consciousness" and "state (of mind)" are or what those words point to. I recommend reading/listening some Rubert Spira if that is the case. 

Thanks, i will take a look

[Markus]

@Spinoza A state of mind is never absolute, nor a state of non-dual awareness. Beyond all distinctions however, you can touch the absolute.

[Hamilcar]

@Spinoza  this is a very good question

[Faceless]

How to avoid our experiences being the product of thought....

The more one accumulates and is influenced by knowledge and seeks psychological security in that knowledge the more ones direct experience becomes only a thought induced projection. If one fills there head with concepts, theory’s, and beliefs in order to capture the silence of being they will never actually reach silence. In order for there to be silence all thought induced perceptions and movement of will must end. Both those inevitably lead to deception/illusion. 

If you don’t set up this possibility for your experiences to be influenced by knowledge, memory, and past experiences then lessens the chance to get caught in the mere acceptance of various types of abstractions.

Only when there is this emptiness of mind can there be an experience free from the experiencer. 

Can you see the significance of going about it like this. 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, Spinoza said:

Hi everyone,

I see many people everywhere on the internet, linking consciousness with the word "The truth" (Scrap the word consciousness. It’s not helping you)

I think that every state is the human mind is an illusion (that is a thought) , like even when you feel enlightened (not a ‘feeling’), maybe you are just depersonalized (you’re not a person), and you feel less pain and mental suffering(you’re making that up).  at that moment, you think you are mon conscious (aware)  and you can see thing better but you are just looking at "reality" from an other illusionary perspective (a thought or feeling is not a realization), i think we are not able to see reality (cause you are it), and we will never understand its meaning (you could know why, ‘other people’ do),  cause it's always subjective to what state you are in the moment (yeah, nothing is objective) . like the degree of consciousness is not always the same, sometimes we can be more clear because we not don't feel so emotional or attached to things, but it's doesn't mean it's the truth nature of our being (look into that for sure), like nothing has a true meaning, and the meaning we give, depend on which state(level of consciousness) we are in(until you now why anything exists at all, then you’re off that rollercoaster).  

What i mean, is that any level of wisdom/consciousness even if it makes life/mind healthier is not an 100% absolute or that we are seeing the truth (can’t see it, can be it, it’s not ‘some level’ of anything, it’s nothing). because our mind is always trying to give a meaning to every experience and if it's pleasant it consider it as the truth (just consider pleasant, as pleasant. Truth encompasses pleasant and unpleasant, and all other duality).

Try seeing everything you think of and believe about reality, in the exact opposite way for a day or two, and find them equal. Get free-er of it. 

I hope that my post is not too vague,

Ps: this is just a thought [ "Maybe" ]

 

[Spinoza]

Thanks you all for your replies, i will do more research and experience more stuff thanks

[abrakamowse]

There's nothing objective, what we (or science) thinks of "objective" is just a more deep rooted subjectivity that we don't recognize as subjective, we took it for real when is not. We think is not a "belief" but it is, a more subtle belief, but it is still a belief. In the dual world, everything is subjective.

Depersonalization, in my opinion is the result of an awakening of our true nature in someone who doesn't know anything at all about this topics and gets caught again in the web of illusion or Maya.

Edited April 11, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Spinoza]

The more i do research, the more i see the reality subjective (Philosophy, Science, Spirituality..etc) 

41 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Depersonalization, in my opinion is the result of an awakening of our true nature in someone who doesn't know anything at all about this topics and gets caught again in the web of illusion or Maya.

I think i understand what you mean, you call it true nature, because it seems so objective....i think when there is an observer the experience is always subjective, once you exist and you can observe you are influenced, so you are subjective, the only state where Maybe we are objective is none-existence.

 

[abrakamowse]

20 minutes ago, Spinoza said:

The more i do research, the more i see the reality subjective (Philosophy, Science, Spirituality..etc) 

I think i understand what you mean, you call it true nature, because it seems so objective....

Exactly, is the only way to point to it. Words never will represent exactly what is because each one of us has different ideas (or view reality differently).

 

Quote

i think when there is an observer the experience is always subjective, once you exist and you can observe you are influenced, so you are subjective

That's duality. We are in duality and we can observe. "What IS" created duality to experience itself as a multiplicity. Is the only way ONE thing can experience itself, creating the idea of two (or more) things. An observer and the observed world.

 

Quote

the only state where Maybe we are objective is none-existence.

Exactly, that's non duality.

Edited April 11, 2018 by abrakamowse

[NoSelfSelf]

Everything is happening inside the conciousness thats the point

[Nahm]

“the only state where Maybe we are objective is none-existence.”

“Exactly, that's non duality.”

 

❤️?☺️

[abrakamowse]

5 hours ago, Nahm said:

“the only state where Maybe we are objective is none-existence.”

“Exactly, that's non duality.”

 

❤️?☺️

 

I read once in I am That, Nis said that consciousness appears in awareness. Consciousness exist because there is unconsciousness. It is still duality.

He makes a distinction between consciousness and awareness. 

Quote

In his use of the word "consciousness" there is always the touch of the duality. If I am conscious it is in relation to being unconscious. If "I am" it is always in relation to the "not-me." If I am conscious it is always conscious OF something. Consciousness always has an object of which I am conscious. So while the realization of my identity as the "I am" is very much closer to reality than the idea that "I am so-and-so, a person" it is still a step away from the final realization of the absolute, that I am the non- dual awareness which is allowing the consciousness to be conscious. Awareness is that which is shining through the consciousness, but it is beyond the consciousness itself. So " awareness" is different from "consciousness" in Nisargadatta's talks. The pure awareness is the absolute, without which there can be no consciousness.

If anyone wants to read the article complete here it is:

http://www.prahlad.org/disciples/premananda/essays/NISARGADATTA CONSCIOUSNESS AND AWARENESS.htm 

[Bobby]

What is it that perceives an illusion?

[Privet]

You are lost in philosophy, the answer is way simpler and it is happening to you right now, no need for endless word masturbation.

Where do your thoughts take place when you read this sentence? When you hear the voice of your mind, what is that "you" that is hearing?

[Phrae]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:58 AM, Spinoza said:

The more i do research, the more i see the reality subjective (Philosophy, Science, Spirituality..etc) 

I think i understand what you mean, you call it true nature, because it seems so objective....i think when there is an observer the experience is always subjective, once you exist and you can observe you are influenced, so you are subjective, the only state where Maybe we are objective is none-existence.

 

It is not that is seems objective. It is objective. It is not your true nature because you perceive it as objective. It is that you stop realizing that this thing, the feeling of you, is you and that it stops being perceived as you. You disidentify with you. That objective reality has absolutely no barring other than the knowing of it. The absolute certainty about it. Not a belief. You don't need to believe in it anymore than believing that there is a screen in front of you right now or that you have hands.

What is claimed here is not a radical superpower it is something simple that you are assuming to be grand because it seems so uncommon. Just because it is uncommon it doesn't make it untrue.

You are speculating here. This is good but only if you go all the way, which many people don't. Do spiritual autolysis diligently. Question the fuck out of the motherfucker. I said nothing here. 

Question your reality, question everything. Really really really really really really really really deeply. Like ask yourself over and over and over and over again that you get to a point where if a thousand person were to come up to you and tell you this is so you would still doubt it.

[Echoes]

@Spinoza