Two Questions to ask

[Thanatos13]

1. What is the point of doing this “self actualization”?

2. Why bother with “nonduality” if it kills love, compassion, and pretty much all the good values of humanity?

[YaNanNallari]

1. There's nothing better to do, it's the best thing there is. It's fun so why not

2. It doesn't kill those things

[Thanatos13]

Your answers are wrong. The first us more of an opinion rather than fact. It isn’t the best thing there is (mostly because it doesn’t exist). 

The second is flat out wrong 

[dude]

1. There is no purpose or point.

2. "nonduality" doesn't kill anything. It will let you see it never existed in the first place.

[Thanatos13]

10 minutes ago, Caterpillar said:

Because improving yourself is fun. And because siddhis.

Another subjective opinion.

 

8 minutes ago, dude said:

1. There is no purpose or point.

2. "nonduality" doesn't kill anything. It will let you see it never existed in the first place.

There is clearly a point to it otherwise one would not do so. If there was no point to it then there would not be a website dedicated to it.

2. That’s not really accurate since love and friendship and those concepts do in fact exist, even if we made them. Social constructs are not figments of the imagination (a common mistake). That’s like saying plants didn’t exist to begin with or life, but it developed later on. Also there isn’t anything that proves nonduality as truth, rather it is merely the teachings and practice that result in such a state. Nonduality doesn’t show anything, rather it’s a state reached through certain beliefs and actions. 

The only way to know what “is” would be to ask early humans, but that is lost to us. 

[dude]

1 minute ago, Thanatos13 said:

Another subjective opinion.

 

There is clearly a point to it otherwise one would not do so. If there was no point to it then there would not be a website dedicated to it.

2. That’s not really accurate since love and friendship and those concepts do in fact exist, even if we made them. Social constructs are not figments of the imagination (a common mistake). That’s like saying plants didn’t exist to begin with or life, but it developed later on. Also there isn’t anything that proves nonduality as truth, rather it is merely the teachings and practice that result in such a state. Nonduality doesn’t show anything, rather it’s a state reached through certain beliefs and actions. 

The only way to know what “is” would be to ask early humans, but that is lost to us. 

1. Your reasoning is flawed in this statement. Is there a point in having sex with animals? People still fucking do it.

2. How do you know it kills all these things in the first place? you're taking a default position.

The CONCEPTS exist as CONCEPTS. A label to verify a certain behavior.

There is only a direct experience of nonduality which I never experienced as soon as you reach it through beliefs or actions you have not found it you just thought you did.

The only way to know what “is” would be to ask early humans, but that is lost to us.   Early humans did not know what "is" they were too busy surviving.

[Faceless]

Don’t worry about “non duality” lol 

Observe the dualistic nature of how you live your own life. See how it plays key roles in relationship with yourself, others, and environment. Explore how it effects your daily life. 

Until you see the total nature of duality in relationship to how you live and conduct your own life you will remain in a divided, fragmented, and conflictual state. 

Don’t project non duality. Deal with duality and once you realize that is created by mind and self imposed by thought deep in your being. Then that perception becomes action that negates all that. You no longer are working in that particular pattern. Then move beyond. 

Its not about knowing non duality it’s about embodiment free of duality. Complete action that is whole.

Again if you are new to this self knowing/learning don’t fill your mind with non duality writings. Learn about duality. Explore the ego,thought, and consciousness when all that is blocking you from SEEING. 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Faceless

[Thanatos13]

The sex with animals bit is for pleasure (the point). Not that I agree with that but that is the point. 

2. You clearly know nothing about early man, you share the misconceptions of much of the population. They had a more developed understanding of existence than modern humans or “mystics”. 

Second, “direct experience” is meaningless in its importance. All experience is mediated through cognitive and intellectual activity. To say otherwise would be deluding yourself.

Love is merely a word we assign to a particular bodily sensation and it is rooted in duality. To see the world through nonduality would be to kill such concepts of “twoness” like friends. Then again that would not be truth but just a way of looking at the world.

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Don’t worry about “non duality” lol 

Observe the dualistic nature of how you live your own life. See how it plays key roles in relationship with yourself, others, and environment. Explore how it effects your daily life. 

Until you see the total nature of duality in relationship to how you live and conduct your own life you will remain in a divided, fragmented, and conflictual state. 

Don’t project non duality. Deal with duality and once you realize that is created by mind and self imposed by thought deep in your being. Then that perception becomes action that negates all that. You no longer are working in that particular pattern. Then move beyond. 

Its not about knowing non duality it’s about embodiment free of duality. Complete action that is whole.

Again if you are new to this self knowing/learning don’t fill your mind with non duality writings. Learn about duality. Explore the ego,thought, and consciousness when all that is blocking you from SEEING. 

 

I know enough about human perception and experience to see that nonduality isn’t actually “seeing” as you so put it but rather just trading one point of view for another and calling it the truth. It’s still a concept like duality, if it were not you wouldn’t be able to understand it let alone know what it is. 

Its jaring and hard to accept in the same vein as someone taking on a view different from their own. 

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

The sex with animals bit is for pleasure (the point). Not that I agree with that but that is the point. 

2. You clearly know nothing about early man, you share the misconceptions of much of the population. They had a more developed understanding of existence than modern humans or “mystics”. 

Second, “direct experience” is meaningless in its importance. All experience is mediated through cognitive and intellectual activity. To say otherwise would be deluding yourself.

Love is merely a word we assign to a particular bodily sensation and it is rooted in duality. To see the world through nonduality would be to kill such concepts of “twoness” like friends. Then again that would not be truth but just a way of looking at the world.

I know enough about human perception and experience to see that nonduality isn’t actually “seeing” as you so put it but rather just trading one point of view for another and calling it the truth. It’s still a concept like duality, if it were not you wouldn’t be able to understand it let alone know what it is. 

Its jaring and hard to accept in the same vein as someone taking on a view different from their own. 

Like I said don’t worry about non duality lol

[Faceless]

@Thanatos13

you guys read to many books ?

[i am I AM]

@Thanatos13 Nonduality will remain a concept until all know what it is to be enlightened.

[Thanatos13]

1 minute ago, i am I AM said:

@Thanatos13 Nonduality will remain a concept until all know what it is to be enlightened.

Enlightenment doesn’t exist, even if it did it would just be another concept. 

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Thanatos13

you guys read to many books ?

It’s how I keep myself honest. One must remove the power that “personal experience” and “spirituality” hold over them

[Ether]

8 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

Enlightenment doesn’t exist, even if it did it would just be another concept. 

 

yup, i guess that peace i felt from meditating wasnt real! sike

I guess the gratitude and love i have for my brothers when its genuine isnt real! sike!

[i am I AM]

t has been said that "The moment one is enlightened, then the whole world becomes enlightened". How I interpret this is, once you, for example, are enlightened, you have solved the duality/all problems in your "world". However, everyone else is trapped in an individual world with unique problems in each. So, they throw these at you (so to speak) and you are capable of using your own experience to work through them, so that they can find enlightenment, for each path.

[Thanatos13]

6 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

t has been said that "The moment one is enlightened, then the whole world becomes enlightened". How I interpret this is, once you, for example, are enlightened, you have solved the duality/all problems in your "world". However, everyone else is trapped in an individual world with unique problems in each. So, they throw these at you (so to speak) and you are capable of using your own experience to work through them, so that they can find enlightenment, for each path.

I disagree with that. Mostly because I don’t believe enlightenment exists as how they portray it. Sure it can be strongly argued that we each live in our “world” or personal experience. But all that I can say for enlightenment is that it’s a state brought on by certain teaching and practices. Not that is the truth.

But even calling duality a problem raises issues. Especially when you say that enlightenment “solves” anything. It doesn’t. There are even some spiritual types who say that enlightenment doesn’t solve anything. The trouble with claiming any spiritual “truth” is not only how vague spirituality is, but so is the vetting process for the information. Not even counting the fact that “insight” is a cognitive aspect so their claim about mind is invalid.

Too much is based on a priori statements. It’s a bit hypocritical how spiritual types say to question everything but don’t do it for themselves. I think there was a reason Pyrrho suspended judgment on nonevident matters.

12 minutes ago, Ether said:

yup, i guess that peace i felt from meditating wasnt real! sike

I guess the gratitude and love i have for my brothers when its genuine isnt real! sike!

All that can be said is that meditation yielded that result for you, in others it had quite the opposite effect (for unknown reasons). 

Your second statement shows that you aren’t actual nondual.

[Soulbass]

1. Leo says the happiest people in the world, are monks and sages (but it's hard to get it, unless you become a monk or a sage yourself).

2. Non-duality doesn't mean having no emotions, or being detached. I don't know exactly what is non-duality tho.

3. There is no 3

[i am I AM]

Yes, I don't think enlightenment itself solves anything.

Rather, one is given the answers to solve all the problems within their consciousness and it is up to the enlightened one to solve them by working together with the rest of existence. One way they can do that is the example I gave about helping with people's problems and general confusion.

[i am I AM]

This would initiate a domino effect in a way. When you count 1,2,3,4 do you consider "one" as the beginning of 1? Or somewhere near the middle? Like as a fraction? Enlightened beings are a fraction in their world, and cannot result in duality for anything/one (including themselves).

[Thanatos13]

5 minutes ago, Soulbass said:

1. Leo says the happiest people in the world, are monks and sages (but it's hard to get it, unless you become a monk or a sage yourself).

2. Non-duality doesn't mean having no emotions, or being detached. I don't know exactly what is non-duality tho.

3. There is no 3

1. I would not trust Leo’s word on anything, or most things. The happiest people in the world are psychopaths or really anyone trapped in one way of thinking. Even then an argument can be made that life isn’t about being happy, or that the monks are just content in their own bubble of teachings. People in cults can also be the happiest in the world. There are countless examples and counterpoints to that statement. 

2. Yes it is.

[Thanatos13]

2 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

This would initiate a domino effect in a way. When you count 1,2,3,4 do you consider "one" as the beginning of 1? Or somewhere near the middle? Like as a fraction? Enlightened beings are a fraction in their world, and cannot result in duality for anything/one (including themselves).

Again, I don’t believe enlightened beings (which don’t exist) are privy to anything special about existence itself. To me it seems like they are running from it, or they live in a bubble they create for themselves. In the end, their state doesn’t prove anything beyond that certain actions lead to it. It’s just a point of view, like any other, except unlike others it claims answers it doesn’t have. 

9 minutes ago, i am I AM said:

Yes, I don't think enlightenment itself solves anything.

Rather, one is given the answers to solve all the problems within their consciousness and it is up to the enlightened one to solve them by working together with the rest of existence. One way they can do that is the example I gave about helping with people's problems and general confusion.

By problems you mean perceived problems. What some consider a fault others consider a feature. Even the notion of a solution can be debated, especially when one doesn’t see a problem. Like psychopathy, the term is ironic because it means “self suffering” (loosely) yet the people who have it aren’t suffering at all. They don’t see a problem, yet some tend to have a negative impact on others.