No Such Thing As Enlightenment?

[Jawor]

I've seen a lot of Leo's videos and I absolutely love them. While most of the time I totally agree with what he says, there's one point that I have a different opinion on.

I don't believe that Enlightenment exists. To my mind, being a human being automatically implies having ego that we can't dispose of by any means. Even the idea of destroying ego with ego is somewhat doubtful. Also, there's no legitimate proof that such a thing exists.. it's like believing in God. And lastly, what would life of an enlightened person look like? If he/she was stabbed with a knife, wouldn't they feel pain? Human body doesn't work that way.

What do you guys think?

[Henri]

Just a belief of yours mate...

And yes, you are right when you say; to my mind...

And you will feel pain off course, YOU are just not suffering...

[Fishy]

That is too bad, but it's your belief.
Enlightened people don't lose their ego, the ego will be aware of what it is and integrate, 

[Galyna]

@Jawor

 Before asking these questions, I would recommend to refer to other topics and and read what other people reply here. You asked a question that already being answered and asked by so many people. 

"I don't believe that Enlightenment exists. " Well ok, do you want someone to prove you otherwise here? What is the nature of your topic? Because if you really would not believe, you probably did not post it here, so....you are not sure then, ha?

Also if you watch Leo and his videos, he tells you there that Enlightenment is not something you should believe. It is empirical experience. 

Smart way would be to say "I do not really know". You can not really say I do not believe that London exists just because you have never been there or otherwise. 

It is very easy to deny something, no work here needed. Try to check and see what happens. 

 

Good luck  

[cetus]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 5:26 AM, Jawor said:

I've seen a lot of Leo's videos and I absolutely love them. While most of the time I totally agree with what he says, there's one point that I have a different opinion on.

I don't believe that Enlightenment exists. To my mind, being a human being automatically implies having ego that we can't dispose of by any means. Even the idea of destroying ego with ego is somewhat doubtful. Also, there's no legitimate proof that such a thing exists.. it's like believing in God. And lastly, what would life of an enlightened person look like? If he/she was stabbed with a knife, wouldn't they feel pain? Human body doesn't work that way.

What do you guys think?

Maybe you are looking at this from the wrong point of view? Enlightenment is the absence of all illusion. That being understood, enlightenment does not exist, only illusion exists.  We agree that the ego/mind is a very ineffective tool to defeat itself. Leo talking about "the flashlight trying to shine it's own light on itself" would fit that scenario also. Think about this, the only way for a flashlight to shine some light on itself would be by using something other to reflect it's light back.  Truthful observation of how other people view us would be a good reflection of our true self                                                                   "Enlightenment is devastatingly simple....Enlightenment is what we are. There is nothing to gain, only its recognition....Awakening to enlightenment is a journey from here to here, not from here to there. There is nowhere to go and nothing to be attained. Enlightenment is simply an awakening to what has always been the case. There is only the seeing through of our own ignorance."

--Gary Crowley

Edited March 7, 2016 by cetus56

[Jawor]

@Galyna, I'm not entirely sure. I'm still looking for the answer, this is why I posted here, but so far the non-existence Enlightenment seems the most reasonable to me. If you convince me, I'll change my mind.

The fact that this is an empirical experience doesn't really matter here because I'm not able to experience it now. I can only believe it or not.

And again, this is not about how much work I put into it to deny it.

Okay, I can say "I don't really know".. How do you know, then? Why are you so sure?

-----------------

@cetus56 "We agree that the ego/mind is a very ineffective tool to defeat itself." 

Exactly. What other tools do we have? Other egos/minds are equally ineffective, thus, I don't agree with the metaphor, in fact, I didn't agree with it the first time I heard about it from Leo.

[werlight]

4 hours ago, Jawor said:

I've seen a lot of Leo's videos and I absolutely love them. While most of the time I totally agree with what he says, there's one point that I have a different opinion on.

I don't believe that Enlightenment exists. To my mind, being a human being automatically implies having ego that we can't dispose of by any means. Even the idea of destroying ego with ego is somewhat doubtful. Also, there's no legitimate proof that such a thing exists.. it's like believing in God. And lastly, what would life of an enlightened person look like? If he/she was stabbed with a knife, wouldn't they feel pain? Human body doesn't work that way.

What do you guys think?

@Jawor Enlightenment is not the distruction of Ego.. It that sense you are right. Ego is a part of who we are.

Enligtenment in a sense is the recognition that we are much more than Ego. So You dont need to destroy Ego to become enlightened you just have to put Ego in its right place.

And Yes Enlightenment does exist. You just probably have a wrong idea of what it actually is.

[Galyna]

@Jawor "Okay, I can say "I don't really know".. How do you know, then? Why are you so sure?" 

I am not sure. I do not have this Experience yet. Talking about it and sharing views is not going to help anyway. 

what you're trying to do here is to trigger an argument so then people start convincing you that Enlightenment does exist.

But what words do you need to hear to believe them? Words is Nothing. Really!

How do you know that pain exist?  

Edited March 6, 2016 by Galyna

[Jawor]

@werlight "You just probably have a wrong idea of what it actually is."

Maybe. 

Leo mentioned a couple of times that Enlightenment is basically getting rid of ego - that was more or less my definition of Enlightenment. Perhaps I interpreted it wrong/too literally..? I'm not sure now. I'll keep on searching!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Jawor

[WelcometoReality]

@Jawor The ego is not something that is destroyed, it is transcended. "Enlightenment" is simply the realization of what you really are, which is not the personality.

[theinevitableandi]

SHOW ME YOUR EGO AND I WILL HELP YOU DESTROY IT! 

[Saumaya]

On 06/03/2016 at 3:56 PM, Jawor said:

I've seen a lot of Leo's videos and I absolutely love them. While most of the time I totally agree with what he says, there's one point that I have a different opinion on.

I don't believe that Enlightenment exists. To my mind, being a human being automatically implies having ego that we can't dispose of by any means. Even the idea of destroying ego with ego is somewhat doubtful. Also, there's no legitimate proof that such a thing exists.. it's like believing in God. And lastly, what would life of an enlightened person look like? If he/she was stabbed with a knife, wouldn't they feel pain? Human body doesn't work that way.

What do you guys think?

Ego is not destroyed, it is transcended. The body will still feel pain.

[Shanmugam]

@Jawor May I ask you how old you are?

[Saumaya]

14 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

@Jawor May I ask you how old you are?

Apparently he doesnt use the forum anymore

[Shanmugam]

1 hour ago, Saumaya said:

Apparently he doesnt use the forum anymore

Oh! March 2016!!!! .. I didn't notice the date

[John Iverson]

3 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

Oh! March 2016!!!! .. I didn't notice the date

Hahahah i'm wondering how is he today HAHAHAH

[Charlotte]

5 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

Oh! March 2016!!!! .. I didn't notice the date

Same ? was just about to reply ?

[John Iverson]

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

Same ? was just about to reply ?

HAahhahha i visit his account he give up this journey haha 

[Staples]

@Jawor Maybe it's not real and we're all duped. You wont find out for sure unless you go after it. 

Of course an enlightened person feels pain, it might do you some good to do a little extra research.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Staples

[eputkonen]

@Jawor is probably long gone.  The post was 2016.

Edited February 24, 2018 by eputkonen