Questioning the Root of Addictions

[iyfe]

Ive seen Leo's video on addiction, and how the root cause of all addictions is according to him (as I remember it at least, correct me if Im wrong) a fear of the realization of no self, a resistance to the existential despair that might come about from the emptiness that the dissolution of the ego entails. Now, it might just be that Im not advanced in meditation or something, but this to me doesnt seem intuitively accurate. Let me give you an example.

Although Im usually a pretty healthy person, I do enjoy smoking once in a while, perhaps once a week, or every two weeks. Ive beenincreasing  both my meditation frequency and length in the past few weeks, and overall becoming a bit more aware (slowly but surely). I have been intentionally trying to become more aware of why I do the things I do, and where these compulsive behaviors come from, and so last time I smoked I tried to be as aware as I could, and I noticed that the reason why I was doing it was because I was worried about something related to my studies, and it stressed me out to the point that I needed an escape. So my question is, why can this not be considered the ultimate reason of my addiction?Why not just say, "oh the reason for my smoking habit is my unwillingness to face stress" instead of going full on existential. I mean, I know this is can be construed as shortsighted and superficial, but why not stop at that? I just dont feel like a fear of emptiness is the true cause, maybe Im just too unconscious still?

Edited April 7, 2018 by iyfe

[Joseph Maynor]

Think of yourself as a self-sustaining system.  What are the substances addicted to doing to keep that system stable?  What would be missing without the substances addicted to?  What kind of adjustment would have to be made to the system to adjust for the change?  Brainstorm in this way a little bit.  You'll start to come up with useful ideas.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Guest Quanty]

Addiction is tapping in the 1st chakra/kundalini with substances and get hooked that way. 

 

 

<3

[Truth Addict]

@iyfe

In reality, there's nothing to really care or worry about. Worrying is thought-driven and so are all emotions. If that's the case, then you smoke because you don't want to face that fact and take responsibility for your own emotions. What's even trickier is that you think it's not an existential problem while in fact it is. It feels that way from an addict perspective, but you can see it clearly in others if you know what's really going on.

Good luck ?

Edited April 16, 2018 by Truth Addict

[Leo Gura]

On 4/7/2018 at 1:52 AM, iyfe said:

"oh the reason for my smoking habit is my unwillingness to face stress"

Yes, but behind this stress is something even more real: emptiness!

You can't stand stress because it feels too bleak and empty to face all alone, so you want a companion for that emptiness.

The reason it's hard to tolerate that stress very mindfully is because there is an emptiness to it.

The mind is always looking for movement and agitation because otherwise the stillness is too much to bear. It's too "real". So you seek escape from the suffering of emptiness into pleasant emotions. Because your mind is addicted to stimulation.

The value of understanding a problem at its root is that you stab the hydra in the heart rather than merely chopping off one of its many heads.

[phoenix666]

@Leo Gura there is emptiness in stress? is that something you experienced/explored yourself? just curious, as I have to deal with stress quite often. it's my biggest obstacle right now. I tried to face it with mindfulness. I then noticed that it is something that I create myself. but more than emptiness, I just feel anxiety and tension overwhelming me..

[Faceless]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but behind this stress is something even more real: emptiness!

You can't stand stress because it feels too bleak and empty to face all alone, so you want a companion for that emptiness.

The reason it's hard to tolerate that stress very mindfully is because there is an emptiness to it.

Yeah thought fears emptiness. Thought gains its continuity from its very function which is to self sustain its own validity and permanence. In this case a psychological defense mechanism. When there is emptiness thought panics and seeks security first and foremost. It escapes to where it feels safe and comfortable. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

@phoenix666 But look deeper. Why can you not just still comfortably with the stress? Why are you running away from it?

Notice that if you sit down with any negative feeling, there will be a kind of agitation there, and it will feel "lonely" for lack of a better word, facing it.

Just having a bunch of stress in your life is not the same thing as addiction. If you just have lots of stress, that's already a symptom of some deeper problem in your life, and chances are really good that that deeper problem is only a problem because you are afraid of facing emptiness.

Example: You are stressed about finishing all your school work because deep down you are afraid of failing school and ending up with nothing -- AKA emptiness.

Example: You are stressed about pleasing your husband because deep down you are afraid that otherwise he will leave you, and you will end up all alone -- AKA emptiness.

[phoenix666]

@Leo Gura ok, yes, I can follow you on a logical level. I'm stressed about studying for exams, writing a dissertation, organizing and doing internships. deep down I'm afraid of failing my studies, I'm afraid of failing at my future job. I'm afraid of fucking up my future patient's lives. true, I'm afraid of not living up to my expectations. I feel like if I don't, I'm nothing --> being nothing --> emptiness 

if I actually try to sit with stress, anxiety comes up. then I usually end up meditating/watching my breath. then it just disappears. is that a hint on its inherent emptiness?

thanks for your explanations! very insightful.

[Leo Gura]

@phoenix666 Your issue here isn't addiction per se, it's just an unconscious, highly socially-conditioned lifestyle.

You are stuck in the rat race. So of course stress would be normal with that. Your entire lifestyle is materialistic and fear-based. That's understandable. You are just trying to survive. But it isn't how you would choose to live if you became deeply conscious of what reality is.

I am not saying to drop everything and quit. I am just saying that as you become more conscious, your lifestyle will change to be slower, less forced, more healthy. And then the stress will be less of an issue.

Underlying this entire pursuit of survival is a deep sense of inadequacy and fear of emptiness and death. All of that seems like it's normal and "just how life has to be", but that isn't true. You can learn to live conscious and healthy. But explaining how is too much for a forum post. That requires a lot of research and trail and error to figure out.

[phoenix666]

@Leo Gura yes, I can see that my life is still highly socially conditioned. it's much better than it used to be, but still. I feel like the rat race is mostly gone, I'm not stuck in that competitive 'I have to be the best' and 'I have to get good grades' mindset anymore. but it is true that this is all about survival. I want to be someone. I want to do something meaningful with my life. I know that there is no inherent meaning to what I do. I constructed it. and I constructed my life purpose as becoming a healer. I get my sense of being someone by being able to help and heal people from -at least- their physical sufferings.

the stress is getting better, I've noticed a huge shift over the last 6 months. but still, sometimes it comes up. 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Underlying this entire pursuit of survival is a deep sense of inadequacy and fear of emptiness and death.

this resonates with me. I can see how this is what's at the root of my anxiety. and also the reason I chose to do something 'meaningful' in my life. 

I can see more and more how much value there is in ''to help others you must first help yourself''. there are so many dysfunctional figures in our health care system. no wonder it's not working for most chronic diseases plaguing modern society.. 

I guess to become a 'good' healer I must first heal myself..

[Leo Gura]

@phoenix666 The pursuit of meaning becomes a very sneaky high-level trap. The search for meaning is directly the avoidance of emptiness. Because in truth, all meaning is illusion, and BEING is meaningless. The ego hates this. But the good news is, once the ego is shattered and total nonduality dawns, you will relaize that BEING is far more profound and superior to meaning.

BEING is what you see on psychedelics. Now imagine if your whole life was like that. Your life would be so empty, it is infinitely full. And from this position of total selflessness, you can do anything and help anyone with ease and joy.

Your intention to help people is great, you're just going about it too shallowly. If you really want to help people, awakening should be your top priority.

[phoenix666]

it's so true, the ego hates this. I feel it. every time I get close to Truth (and all meaning is illusion, and BEING is meaningless with it) the ego becomes like a grumpy, sullen child. 

I can see that, I guess my intention to become a healer comes from the ego itself. it's not coming from a selfless place - yet. 

the problem is, awakening seems to not go well together with university and work.. I guess sooner or later I'll have to choose between Truth and everything I'm working on the material level (education, work)

[njuufa]

@phoenix666  Dont start meditating when it arises, because that might be another way to escape. Rather go lay down and surrend totally. When anxiety comes up you start following it as best as you can. Its important to remember that this place you are exploring now is NEW when you follow it. So all you have learned and logic is useless. Just be with anxiety. Like its a alien you want know where he came from - sense of “want to know” is important, but dont talk with it or ask questions from him. Let he show you where he came from. Relax for a 20min before you start diving

[njuufa]

Finally anxiety will release itself with suppressed hidden and you feel so much better.

[phoenix666]

@njuufa thanks for your suggestions. next time it comes up I will try. could be, because meditation sometimes becomes rather mind-centered for me instead of embracing my whole body, emotions/feelings/sensations.. 

[Soulbass]

I've seen the face of the "never ending appetite" demon influencing me (which I've created) in several dreams. It really wants me to act a certain way (food addiction, optimizing stuff, multi-tasking & rushing). The root cause of this addiction is from a sexual nature. This entity may find home in my body between 2nd and 3rd chakras.

Emotions are supposed to go away (in inferior realms, to be recycled by those creatures) it's because we let the "household refuse" in the living room, that rats takes place.

Everything in the universe is as it's place, it's so fucking perfect.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Soulbass

[Nahm]

On 4/7/2018 at 4:52 AM, iyfe said:

Ive seen Leo's video on addiction, and how the root cause of all addictions is according to him (as I remember it at least, correct me if Im wrong) a fear of the realization of no self, a resistance to the existential despair that might come about from the emptiness that the dissolution of the ego entails. Now, it might just be that Im not advanced in meditation or something, but this to me doesnt seem intuitively accurate. Let me give you an example.

It’s accurate as f. You’re projecting a little (slight) nihilistic assumption on what you heard him say. Let go of that by realizing you have never experienced nothing (no self). So, don’t allow any assumptions. 

Although Im usually a pretty healthy person, I do enjoy smoking once in a while, perhaps once a week, or every two weeks.

When you choose fruit over ice cream, you are making a conscious decision. When you choosing long term health over short term pleasure (smoking), you are making a conscious decision. Want to be more conscious? Be more conscious. What is eternal would not succumb to short term thinking. 

Ive beenincreasing  both my meditation frequency and length in the past few weeks, and overall becoming a bit more aware (slowly but surely). YES! :).

 I have been intentionally trying to become more aware of why I do the things I do, and where these compulsive behaviors come from, and so last time I smoked I tried to be as aware as I could, and I noticed that the reason why I was doing it was because I was worried about something related to my studies, and it stressed me out to the point that I needed an escape. So my question is, why can this not be considered the ultimate reason of my addiction?Why not just say, "oh the reason for my smoking habit is my unwillingness to face stress" instead of going full on existential.

Of course smoking is the response to not facing your fear. You are projecting any need to go existential on it. Own that. t’sa way of “trying to figure it out”, which is the ego’s main play at continuing the smoking. You are worthy of good health, and you are more deserving of love than you think. 

I mean, I know this is can be construed as shortsighted and superficial, but why not stop at that?

Nobody is stopping you from stoppping and being satisfied with short sightedness. Nobody is coming to help you either. If you needed help, it would come. You are enough. You’re powerful beyond measure. So powerful, you’re afraid of even a glimpse of it. 

I just dont feel like a fear of emptiness is the true cause, maybe Im just too unconscious still? Yeah.   Getting honest though. ??

 

[Faceless]

 

Understanding the relationship of fear and pleasure and it’s relationship to thought/psychological security might help you understand this on escaping emptiness. 

There are some vids I just found that J. Krishnamurti has made that go over that. 

 

 

[Faceless]

Also Tolle has talks of this.