how are we so sure if someone is enlightened?

[charlie cho]

I'm just curious. How are we so sure if anyone is enlightened?

(For enlightenment... my definition will be the person who knows who he is... and is himself. And knows the truth.)

[Ayla]

There is no way of knowing it but you surely can feel their energy field

 

[denselayman]

i would also have to agree, that mark of enlightment is awareness of one's own integrity and putting all teachings/insights/revelations learned to good use in open and meaningful way.

[charlie cho]

I tried to insult my "spiritual" teacher. She didn't react... I'm really beginning to think she's enlightened.

[drelamore]

As Leo said, make him/her sit stll for 8 hours straight, he shouldn't have a problem with that :P

[Leo Gura]

Technically there is no way to tell because enlightenment is an inner realization.

But in practice, you can easily tell enlightened people from non-enlightened people simply by the non-reactive way in which they carry themselves.

I've never found this to be a problem. I can tell when someone is speaking the truth just from listening to them for 5 minutes. It's quite obvious if you study this stuff for some length of time.

The other reason it never bothered me is because it doesn't really matter. What matters is my enlightenment. What matters is if the stuff they tell me is getting me closer or further away from my own truth. And that's quite easy to detect.

[Lord God]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The other reason it never bothered me is because it doesn't really matter. What matters is my enlightenment. What matters is if the stuff they tell me is getting me closer or further away from my own truth. And that's quite easy to detect.

This, and only this over and over again.

Your question kind of relates to the whole dualism vs monism debate (See Kant vs Berkeley or read Tertium Organum by P.D Ouspensky). To paraphrase dualism proposes that there is an inner world and an outer world one where we experience things which is entirely subjective, and one we participate in which is objective. Monism proposes that everything we know is only as it is because we imagine it that way, and there is no inner/outer world just your own imagination conceptualizing.

In that regard how can you tell if someone is truly enlightened or not? Well I pose the question how can you even tell if someone is a someone or not? How can you know the world even exists outside of you, or if you simply trying to figure out your own self create characters to interact with and learn from? This is the problem with the circlejerk of philosophy in the sense that it doesn't really ever answer this question only poses them. In the end you really have no means to measure this and it shouldn't really make any difference on your journey. As far as you're aware if you're really self honest in y our experience you're the only one with sensations, the only one with an inner world, and you've never witnessed another being, only the sensations "they" cause within "you".

To put it concisely you can't know if someone is enlightened in the same way you can't know when you close your eyes that the world is still there, you have no real evidence or data to prove either theory so simply do as Leo suggests, take that which gives you insights, and leave the rest be.

Truly

Z

[Inliytened1]

@charlie cho enlightenment is purely subjective.  The question is irrelevant.

[Good-boy]

They are in peace with everything, plus their eyes have this weird attraction of calm and peace.

[thesmileyone]

Their energy field. Unshrouded by ignorance, their energy can be felt. Look at Francis Lucille, Spira, even pictures of Ramana, if you are far along the path you should be able to feel the energy. For me it comes across as all my hairs stand up. They are unconsciously transmitting energy. I can consciously transmit energy, but I don't, because I worry about transmitting the ignorance I still have.  However like I said to someone earlier, crying children in malls stop crying when I walk past and then continue when I walk on. People stop fighting and arguing just being in my presence. It is all very wierd but hey if it helps people then great!