My problems with my lower selfs desires and pickup

[Freakrik]

The thing is i planned on making the next 6 years of my life learning game and pickup. Most from Todd v. And experiment. Even if i know It's manipulative. But i feel like i have to get it out of my system. Experiment with the techniques like Toys even if it is selfish. (Note, even if i am manipulating i am honest with myself about it and i am not buying into the pickup dogma,  i am not gonna try techniques that can harm a woman Long term) To prove to my ego that no matter how much you test you are not gonna be happy. And have a end goal of finding a wife. Start a family. Doing spirutal work. But i my ego dies before it kills itself (mindfuck but you get it, that i am gonna go to hell and suffer forever) and i know you are not gonna like what i am saying but that' whats my ego and lower self tells me to do. As i feel like i need to give it what it wants to be able to ler go of it. And because of the rise of feminism my lower self feels every tempted to use the techniques that are outright manipulative.  i know because it's a low conscious behavior. I am afraid that if i am not fixing my low conscious in time i end up in hell. But sometimes my ego have a burning desire to do it. The more i try to get rid of the desire the more intese it gets. I agree with most of the points with leo in his rant against pickup. Like cheating. It's the game and the techniques itself my lower self want to test. I don't want to hurt women. But my lower self really want to use the techniques and master them. Stuff like leo talked about in his video like try to get a women to sleep with you even if she does not really want and regrets its is borderlane rape or being an asshole to other guys in the set is wrong. I agree with leo's list about what not to do. except the manipulation because that's the techniques and the toys

Here todd talks about techniques that are not pc. And i want to use such techniques because experiment. And because i want to experiment i want to use almost all techniques that are not gonna cause long term damage to a women. Like emotional enslavement. I would never even dare to use such things even if i wanted to. 

And i don't want to hear that i am gonna go to hell if i do todd v style of pickup and that's why it should not do it if it's not true. 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Freakrik

[Freakrik]

7 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

Listen, dude. Most of what you say or do in a social setting is a manipulation anyway, it just goes unnoticed. You think your current, socially conditioned self is authentic and non-manipulative? Think again. Ego is a bitch and inherently selfish no matter what, that's the game. Question is, do you want to be a socially conditioned average chump that manipulates to keep safe and protect his/her ego at the cost of free expression, or do you want to be an empowered ego that's free to express and get and do what he/she wants?

Btw just follow RSD Julien, Max or Jeffy if you want less manipulation, it's all about authenticity and self-amusement with those guys which pairs great with enlightenment work (but some people around here just don't want to even consider that because they read a Buzzfeed article about Neil Strauss and the evil manipulative pick up artists LOL). 

Game should be about giving yourself and the girl a good time. If you're consciously manipulating for xyz outcomes, you're doing it wrong and it won't even be as effective (or fun).

Haha i have heard about julien talk about how he makes girls beg him to kiss them. a senario where i could make a femnist girl do that in front of her feminist friend really temps me. I am not against manipluation itself. Just that i don't want to hurt women or be sent to hell. Leo talked about that in his paranormal episode. I am right now dipping my toes into this. I know julien, max and jeffy. 

I just like the ide of todd. Trying something new in game is like a christmas morning present. But i know it's gonna takes years to master. 

Non pc techniques is things like speed seduction.  I want to try all the techniques with no long term (except negs maybe, Because that is just mean)  

[Nahm]

@Freakrik Could you share what it is you’re talking about doing?

[Freakrik]

52 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Freakrik Could you share what it is you’re talking about doing?

Todd talks about how the pua before was searching for what works when picking up girls and not what is "who who and feel good". In his art of game manifesto he talked about speed seduction and his uses of it. Speed seduction is not pc. But it's not cause suffering in the woman. Things like that i would love to experiment with. My lover self would love to do julien style get away with alot of s**t when talking to feminist. Like making the girl beg me to kiss her in front of her feminist friend. Watch his art of game manifesto to see  

EDIT: And too be honest. Girl plays mindgames when it comes to dating. Beta tests for example. So i don't see too much wrong with mindgames. Dating is just manipulation before sex. But it does not mean i need to be mean to a girl with things like negs

So i want to test those mindgames. I texted a gril once and tried to just be normal, non calculating. she stopped texted me. I asked her why and she said studies. I told my female friend about it. She said "That's so mean. Play the same game" so yeay i think women are doing manipluation in game also. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Freakrik

[Nahm]

@Freakrik I’m completely ignorant to the pua world, so the references to teachers and jargon of the industry are lost on me. 

If you would, in ordinary language, what is it you are actually planning to do? I am “seeking first to understand”, and I appreciate your help. 

[Freakrik]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Freakrik I’m completely ignorant to the pua world, so the references to teachers and jargon of the industry are lost on me. 

If you would, in ordinary language, what is it you are actually planning to do? I am “seeking first to understand”, and I appreciate your help. 

I would suggest that you search for "todd v dating" on yt get a better understanding of the pua world. I am going to sleep now ;). I am planning to take the next 6 years of my life learning pickup. Experiment with diffrent techniques that are not pc. Mostly technical game from todd. avoid things like the pua dogma and stay there too long. I would suggest that you watch todd to get a vison about the pua world. If you don't get it i can describe it tomorrow. To get it out of my system. And at the same time do self help of course.

[aurum]

@Freakrik

What is manipulation?

Is going to school to learn how to talk manipulation? Is getting your haircut manipulation? Is practicing a big speech in front of a mirror manipulation? Is making a joke manipulation?

A far better question than asking if you're "manipulating people" is what is your intention?

Your intent trumps all. The reason I have no hangups with the pickup stuff is because I know who I am and what my intent is. I know I want a positive experience for any girl I meet and that she is going to be blown away once she gets to know me.

When you say things like :

4 hours ago, Freakrik said:

just that i don't want to hurt women or be sent to hell

that you're experiencing a lot of guilt and shame. You're conflicted because you WANT to get girls, but the way to get girls seems evil and wrong.

You gotta kill that mindset. No good salesperson doesn't believe in selling. No good musician doesn't believe in playing music.

Likewise, if you want to be good at picking up girls, you have to believe in picking up girls. It's really that simple. You have to believe you're doing something positive.

Again, it all comes down to intent. Set your genuine intention for not only a good experience for yourself, but also for her. No matter what happens no one can take your intent away.

[Freakrik]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

@Freakrik

What is manipulation?

Is going to school to learn how to talk manipulation? Is getting your haircut manipulation? Is practicing a big speech in front of a mirror manipulation? Is making a joke manipulation?

A far better question than asking if you're "manipulating people" is what is your intention?

Your intent trumps all. The reason I have no hangups with the pickup stuff is because I know who I am and what my intent is. I know I want a positive experience for any girl I meet and that she is going to be blown away once she gets to know me.

When you say things like :

that you're experiencing a lot of guilt and shame. You're conflicted because you WANT to get girls, but the way to get girls seems evil and wrong.

You gotta kill that mindset. No good salesperson doesn't believe in selling. No good musician doesn't believe in playing music.

Likewise, if you want to be good at picking up girls, you have to believe in picking up girls. It's really that simple. You have to believe you're doing something positive.

Again, it all comes down to intent. Set your genuine intention for not only a good experience for yourself, but also for her. No matter what happens no one can take your intent away.

Do you think doing todd v style of pickup is bad? 95% of the time i just want to test game or get good with women. The other 5% of the time I am in an lower self mode and want to do it bacause of It's something that feminists hate. So yeay Good and bad. I looked at leo's rant against pick up. 90% of the things on the list on what you should stop doing on that list is just Stop Being an a**hole like dumping women in an cruel way or cheating. So as Long i do not make women suffer and have Good intentions i can manipluate as much as i want? 

Do you agree with ross? 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Freakrik

[Nahm]

@Freakrik I don’t know man, if it’s hard to use your own words and describe what you’re planning on doing, you probably know you shouldn’t do it. Just breath from your stomach, and talk to girls. Be genuine. Ask em questions. Manipulation is another issue you’ll likely have to do work on yourself down the road for. 

[Freakrik]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Freakrik I don’t know man, if it’s hard to use your own words and describe what you’re planning on doing, you probably know you shouldn’t do it. Just breath from your stomach, and talk to girls. Be genuine. Ask em questions. Manipulation is another issue you’ll likely have to do work on yourself down the road for. 

Ok. Short. I am gonna use some mindgames to make the girl like me that does not cause suffering because that's mean. Dating is just mindgames and manipulation until the relationship so yeay. Best way i can describe it

Edited April 6, 2018 by Freakrik

[Freakrik]

1 hour ago, brovakhiin said:

@Freakrik Have you even listened to a single thing that's been said here? Read aurum's post again and you will see it has nothing to do with which specific dating coach you choose to follow.

Did not understand what he meant the first time i read it. Now i think i understand it better but i don't know. Because i am a bit confused after watching leo's rant against the pua community. If we think like this. What is good manipulation and what is bad manipluation in dating. If whe ignore the intention behind it? Like for example of obvious bad manipulation of dating is caling a woman something mean in other to get an emotional response. Like c*nt. If a girl is indiffrent you can use it get an emotional response and then guide her feelings to be good. i can have a good intention but it's still wrong to do it. For example is speed seduction good or bad? If you have a good intention? I want to study seduction as a science. I am fascinated about it form what i have studied. But there is line. You see what i am coming from?

Edited April 6, 2018 by Freakrik

[Nahm]

@Freakrik To each their own I guess. Weird to me. Manipulation in inherently unscrupulous. What about Tinder, etc? Wouln’t That be easier anyway?

[Freakrik]

20 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Freakrik To each their own I guess. Weird to me. Manipulation in inherently unscrupulous. What about Tinder, etc? Wouln’t That be easier anyway?

It's just that it is fascinating with the science of seduction.

[Ayilton]

you seem to be dead serious about learning pick up , start with reading  the Way of the Superior Man by David .....!

You have plenty of time to understand the opposite sex , If you want to do that , do it ! Just dont loose sight of the bigger picture

[Nahm]

@Freakrik I might be wrong, as I don’t know much about pua, but I think you were right when you acknowledged you were following a low conscious path. Would you do that under any other circumstance really? Sex drive is about as tough illusion / awakening wise as pain, but if you’re interested in the long term, follow your highest consciousness paths. Or don’t. Also true, there’s a female or two out there wanting to get picked up. Probably not wanting to be manipulated though. Cuttin people’s heads of is “facinating” too. Real personal growth and compassion for others is also “fascinating”. Just sayin man. 

What we think, we become. 

What we feel, we attract.

What we imagine, we create.

-Buddha (allegedly) 

Check out epigenetics, and the ability to “switch” genes on & off. Apply that realization to the survival impulse. Transcend it with more awareness & understanding. Do the self work. Females will step right out of the universe for you. Manipulative moves are steps backwards. Hope you don’t take this as judging. Just sharing from experience. Mine is no more valid that yours. 

[Freakrik]

2 minutes ago, Ayilton said:

you seem to be dead serious about learning pick up , start with reading  the Way of the Superior Man by David .....!

You have plenty of time to understand the opposite sex , If you want to do that , do it ! Just dont loose sight of the bigger picture

Right now i living in an medium size citie so i have to be selective with approaches. To not mess up my reputation. I have studied diffrent types of seduction so far. It's fascinating. When i get older (17 right now) i can approach more and not have to mess up my reputation

[Freakrik]

12 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Freakrik I might be wrong, as I don’t know much about pua, but I think you were right when you acknowledged you were following a low conscious path. Would you do that under any other circumstance really? Sex drive is about as tough illusion / awakening wise as pain, but if you’re interested in the long term, follow your highest consciousness paths. Or don’t. Also true, there’s a female or two out there wanting to get picked up. Probably not wanting to be manipulated though. Cuttin people’s heads of is “facinating” too. Real personal growth and compassion for others is also “fascinating”. Just sayin man. 

What we think, we become. 

What we feel, we attract.

What we imagine, we create.

-Buddha (allegedly) 

Check out epigenetics, and the ability to “switch” genes on & off. Apply that realization to the survival impulse. Transcend it with more awareness & understanding. Do the self work. Females will step right out of the universe for you. Manipulative moves are steps backwards. Hope you don’t take this as judging. Just sharing from experience. Mine is no more valid that yours. 

I will not use techniques like negs (negative compliment) because that might help but it's hurting women. You have to understand women play mindgames with men to. But mindgames are not really hurting women. But negs do. Yes it's about sex but it's also to for the game itself. I understand that this is not a path i will follow to the day my ego die. 6-7 years the most. Find a wife, Make kids, working with consciousness and find the Truth.

 

EDIT: i understand that i don't need to use all of these stuff to get women. i want to study seduction as an art and as a science. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Freakrik

[i am I AM]

This is an opportunity for real personal growth. The path is directionless. It's not good or bad.

[Freakrik]

From my research there basicly 3 types of manipulations when it comes to seduction

1. Nlp and hypnosis based tactics. 

Some of the coaches that comes to mind here is Ross jefferis and Derek rake. 

Can this manipulation be harmful? Yes (some of the stuff is really potent and used without controll can cause damage)

is this all bad? No. Not if it used under controll.

But there are definitely some things that should be left as just theory. especially form the the stuff derek teaches. 

(I don't know the potential of speed seduction. I don't know if the highest seduction state of Speed seduction is love. More research needs to be done)

2. Mindgames

Some of the stuff that comes to mind is: art of seduction, Bobby rio, Rod judge. And many pua stuff like mystery and even Rsd stuff. Check it out if you want to know more

can this manipulation be harmfull? kinda. Not really. It's less harmfull and from my research you can disable the effects with needieness and desperation very quick. I tought Love was the ulitimate seduction state. It's not. There are more stages in seduction. (They are optional)  I will never use stuff that goes beyond love. Why? Because then there is no way going back from that. From my research no matter how hard she Loves you can just be a be low confident, Boring, needy and desperate and the Love Will wannish no matter how hard it was. So it's safe. And from my research  non of these mindgames can take you beyond Love And i think anything beyond Love is unhealthy. 

The only suffering this can cause if you use it to make a girl fall in love with you and dump her. That is irresponsible 

 

3. psychological abusive manipulation.

this is a mix of things. This is some stage red level of manipulation. 

The minor stuff that comes to mind is negs. That harms a girl and lower her self esteem. (At least temporary) 

some bigger things for example is gas lighting, verbal abuse and indoctrination. 

This manipulation is harmfull. It's causes suffering to the women. Does it work? From my research. Yes. Do i think it's still wrong? Yes. This is mostly used by stage red dark triads. It's intresting to to research but It's definitely not something i would use. (If you want to see a fascinating example of seductive indoctrination watch film theory fifty shades of grey theory, and how he uses it to get controll over anna)

so now you have a better picture of what i mean. Notice that i have Said from my research because i can be wrong. critique is welcomed

do i think i need to most stuff? No. But It's not just for the sake of getting girls. It's more like a field i want to explore. What do you think @Nahm? Your opinion is welcomed.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Freakrik

[Nahm]

@Freakrik Sorry man, I’m just not inspired to look up the sources you mentioned to get an understanding of this. I appreciate you sharing. Direct experience is always the way to go, so so how this feels when you experience it. Then you’ll know. Maybe you’ll start, and end up laughing about it with your future wife. ❤️