What's Your Opinion of Leo's Stance on Islam?

[Salih Tugsal]

The Sufi approch to Islam that Leo refers to is how people practice Islam in my country, Turkey. 

The majority do not indulge in meditation practices, but the interpretation of the Quran is of the Sufi way. 

We view the Quran as a book that was written in a rather poetic way, open to interpretations in many ways. Say that in the Quran it says (not an actual quote) "I have my hands on all matters". A wahabbi (Arabian understanding of the Quran) indivdual could take the case literally and actually argue that God has an actual hand whereas a Sufi will interperet it as God's presence in all place of being. Certain things like God's monothesitic nature and Muhammed's prophecy are not up for interpretation though.

Another example is the interpretation on the pragmatic laws of Islam also known as the Sharia law. Where a Wahabi will keep the exact punishment stated in the Quran for a said crime, let it be cutting of the hand as a punishment to theft. Turks and Sufis(?) alter the punishment to fit the modern times. This was mostly how the laws were set even in the Ottoman times.

Another big difference I see is that Turks or Sufis seem to understand that the Quran was delivered in a 23 year period. It is pretty much a bunch of verses that were 'sent' to Muhammed upon the events that happened to him and the people around him. So every verse must be taken in historical context for a healtht practice in modern times.

The Westerner should know that the Wahabbis are the minoraties in Islam. I practically grew up in the U.S so I had my prejudices towards Islam. Until I moved to my home country that is... only to find out that well, these are actually pretty cool people!

This is what I saw between the Arab Muslims in America and the Turks in Istanbul. My father's family goes way back being Turkish Sufis but I am just a Vipassana practitioner and a Dhamma follower.

Hope this gives one a better perspective on the different takes on Islam.

Have a good day!

[Leo Gura]

@Salih Tugsal Cool, thanks for sharing!

[Sevi]

@Salih Tugsal hi! I'm from Turkey too. My late maternal grandfather was a Sufi too. Where is your father from in Turkey?

Alhought I don't know so much about other Islamic cultures, I agree with you about Turks, since their original background of their belief system is completely different, they have a better understanding of the essence of the religion.

And thank you for your vipassana retreat post by the way. I'm gonna do my first one in couple of months, it was helpful.

 

* I don't remember if I posted on this thread before but; Leo's video was incredible about understanding the essence of Islam; it might be more right to say I think, it was more about Sufism; alhought Sufism is a fruit of that religion, it stayed pure while the religion has damaged by all the cultural, social, political conditionings and corruptions. I got suprised seeing someone who is not related to this religion, grasping it this significantly.

[Highest]

He's right, one of the meanings of Jihad is to strive against yourself. However, the other meaning is to fight against God's enemies. You should fight and convert every single human being to Islam. It sounds absurd, but I have talked to people who actually knows almost literally everything about Islam, and they agree that this definition is true. Islam does promote terrorism, leo does not know that. But I do. I asked this Iman (highly Islamic teacher) if it is okay to kill non-muslims. He said that it is necessary as the goal of Islam is to take over the world, as he said. 

[Salih Tugsal]

@SeviMy grandfather is from Tokat. He was the head Imam of his village and they immigrated to Istanbul when my dad was 7. My father then went to Hafiz school and went on to get his BA MA and PhD.

I am glad that the Vipassana post helped you, definitely give it a go. After the retreat you may want to dig even deeper into your Sufi roots which was the case for me!

@Leo Gura thanks for reading!

[furashido]

There is a Sufi Master / Gnostic teacher called Dr Seyed Azmayesh who has dedicated his life to researching the Quran and fighting for the sufis in Iran who are being targeted by the government for not following the strict political islamic laws the country is ran under. In Iran, self actualization, consciousness work and meditation is looked upon as working with the devil and so the spiritual masters who are fighting for waking the people up from their programming are targeted and given death sentence. 

Here are the links if anyone is interested. 

/F

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seyed_Mostafa_Azmayesh

https://books.google.se/books/about/New_Researches_on_the_Quran_Why_and_How.html?id=ED1lCwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

[Harikrishnan]

I wish Muslims in my place had the chance to watch leo instead of Zakir naik ?. A muslim who practises Islam according to quran and hadith never becomes Allah if he dosent question Allah and unfortunately less than 1% does that thanks to Imams. Sufism is beautiful and peacful but enlightenment is far. 

@Prabhaker i love to hear this did Sufism paved way for bhakti moment in india?

[Sevi]

9 hours ago, Salih Tugsal said:

@SeviMy grandfather is from Tokat. He was the head Imam of his village and they immigrated to Istanbul when my dad was 7. My father then went to Hafiz school and went on to get his BA MA and PhD.

I am glad that the Vipassana post helped you, definitely give it a go. After the retreat you may want to dig even deeper into your Sufi roots which was the case for me! 

Oh okay.. So they were hafiz and sufi. My grandfather was from Eskisehir; he never went to mosque, he was not a typical traditional religious man, he was visited by an enlightened master, they spent a day together where my grandpa witnessed master's some powers, also Asik Veysel stayed with him one night; he wrote couple of books about existence, back then I did understand nothing:) and actually my name comes from Yunus Emre's lines:) my journey had been already set for me when I arrived I guess:) but only after watching Leo's vids I started to really digest the essence of the teachings; getting out of the conditionings is a must I think to really grasp the essence of the experiences.

And yes, I'm so looking forward to join the retreat, and I'm hoping to getting rid of as much distractions as possible to re-connect my roots.. 

I'm happy you joined the forum, it supports the practices actually, since most of the posts are on the related subjects.

@Salih Tugsal

[Salih Tugsal]

@Sevi 

Well I feel welcomed!

What an experience it must have been for him to not only see the sprituality within Islam but to also spend a night with one of the most influencial Turkish artists of all time. 

One has to step back and question to really comprehend the spritual depth which Islam posseses. Since it is also a way if life, it is easy to just dismiss it as an all out dogma. 

Looking forward to seeing you around

 

[Sevi]

@Salih Tugsal thank you:) that's right, coming across with life changing concepts is such a blessing.. I consider actualized.org that way actually; I believe it'll open your mind to new layers too:)

[voxun]

Hey guys,

this is my first post but I think I can bring some value to this topic. It's crazy to see how polarizing religions can be to people. It's important to remember that Islam is not this fixed thing. It is what people make of it. More importantly is what is useful to us. 

So I got into Islam and more particularly Sufism or Tasawwuf a bit more then most people. Far from an expert though. Will post some good references for those who want to explore this topic. 

The best reference that is accessible to anyone is a YouTube channel by Ihsan Alexander. https://youtu.be/u0WcsqSDU7U

He is an American Muslim who spend a long time learning from a well known Sheik in Cyprus. He lived there for 7 years (I think). Also went to Afghanistan in search for knowledge. Pretty serious guy.

Most of the stuff I learned comes from him (I spoke to him personally several times) and I will write down some general ideas here but I don't want to spread wrong information so if you want to learn more just check him out.

There are several stages to Islam. The fist stage is called the purification of the hearth. This refers to the time Muhammad and his time in the cave. It also refers to the purification of his close followers in the early stages of Islam. 

There is a good episode on soul of Islam radio about this topic called expansion of the hearth: http://www.soulofislamradio.com/blog/expansion-of-the-heart-with-imam-fode-drame/

The purification or spiritual aspect of the religion is what's missing today not just in Islam but in Christianity and Judaism.

Paradise is not something you wait for until you die but you step in to during this lifetime by transcending the ego.

The concept is transcending ego in Islam is explained as Jihad al Nafs.

The Nafs is like a combination of the ego and the soul. https://youtu.be/MJ1QJ1tLUlU

There are also the 99 names which point to attributes of god. Which in themselves point to the overarching overarching concept of Allah which can be known by direct experience, which in turn points to HU which is the unknown and cannot be known. 

A few Meditation practices are Dhikr and Muraqaba.

Dhikr (meaning remembrance of god) is like a combination of prayer and meditation. It's similar to chanting matras. Here you would for example repeat the names of god 99 times in Arabic. They also have the sound HU which can be used as a mantra as the Yogis use the sound OM.

Muraqaba is more like a traditional meditation practice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqaba

The meaning of Islam is sometimes is referred to as submission to god but from what I understand the word surrender would be more appropriate. The goal of Islam is to reach a state of Islam (surrender) or to live in a state of Islam (surrender). To surrender to divine will or to surrender to this moment. To the eternal now.

Best books are from Imam Fode Drame and one I recommend is Rejuvenation of the soul (expansions).

I hope you guys find this post useful and I will conclude with a quote from the prophet Muhammad:

Quote

One hour of meditation/contemplation is equal to 70 years of prayer. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, voxun said:

The goal of Islam is to reach a state of Islam or to live in a state of Islam

Isn't it interesting how that can read two ways?

1) Become enlightened, 2) Create an Islamic state.

[Prabhaker]

3 hours ago, voxun said:

The goal of Islam is to reach a state of Islam (surrender) or to live in a state of Islam (surrender)

 I have heard that Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb don't appear anywhere in the Quran or any Hadith.

[voxun]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it interesting how that can read two ways?

1) Become enlightened, 2) Create an Islamic state.

lol Didn't didn't even think of that. I'm secretly recruiting jihadi's. Pm me if you want some adventure lads! ?

Edited June 5, 2018 by voxun

[voxun]

5 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

 I have heard that Dar al Islam and Dar al Harb don't appear anywhere in the Quran or any Hadith.

To be honest I don't know. When I talked to Ihsan (the person with the YouTube channel) he never talked about an Islamic state but just always about surrendering to what is. The internal state not an external state.

Edited June 5, 2018 by voxun

[ahmad ibdah]

Islam is massively misinterpreted and is a suitable environment for ego and materialistic mindset to take over and that is for a pretty obvious reason which is that Quran doesn't concentrate at all at discussing spirituality in details. It instead focuses on introducing the right existential  ideas about God, life and morality. Actually, Quran is not intended to be a book to be read once and that is it. It in many verses says it is a reminder. A book that will reminds you with what you need to stay strong in your path and that Is essentially the most important thing that you will need in personal development. Quran also discusses the idea of religion being misused ad abused by religious people. It also warns the reader that this book the quran can guide or misguide the reader depending on how righteous he is. Islam is a pretty solid religion actually and this in part maybe the reason behind people staying or becoming Muslims even in this age. 

The way of Islam in spirituality depends mainly on contemplating about God and keeping remembrance of him and that really gives you a bunch of feelings and experiences that are essential for growth. 

[Azza]

I have to admit, If I'd watched the video 2 years ago I would have thought Leo doesn't know what he's talking about, he just doesn't understand real islam and making things up to go along with his own mindset. But now, after putting Islam aside and looking for the truth through different paths, looking back at Islam, I see it exactly the same way Leo sees it and he could possibly still understand it more. And the closest interpreters of islam are actually sufis, as most of them see that god is our guide , and we are god's eyes, we are not separate as Ibn Arabi the sufi said "I thank him and he thanks me, I worship him and he worships me" and "Listening creates existence, as everything that exists vibrates". he adopted the idea of unity of existence, he also said something very very pretty "my heart became accepting of every image, every deer pasturage and every monastery. Idols houses and kaaba (house of allah in mecca), the torah and the quran, I follow the belief of love wherever it goes, as now, love is my religion" (excuse my for my poor translation im translating from arabic lol). Yet most sufis are accused of blasphemy because of this interpretation of the unity of everything.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Azza

[Nagma]

@Harikrishnan Oh so you think u can be omnipotent and create matter out of the void ? ....