What's our belief?

[Angelo John Gage]

For most my life, I was Catholic (until the age of reason) as George Carlin put it (8 for him but 23 for me lol). I was then atheist for like 2 mins, then agnostic, but then I ran into Deism, since I just intuitively believed in a high power. There are three versions of Deism:

Classical Deism:  is a philosophical belief that posits that God exists and is ultimately responsible for the creation of the universe, but does not interfere directly with the created world.

Pandeism: is a theological doctrine which combines aspects of pantheism and deism. It holds that the creator of the universe actually became the universe, and so ceased to exist as a separate and conscious entity. ( I guess he was the big bang)

Panendeism: is a sub-category of Deism.  It is based on the speculation that the universe is a part of god, but not all of god and literally means "all in god". 

I used to hold the classical view, but after learning much here I'm believing more of the panedeistic view... 

I'm assuming that is what most people believe here, according to this picture from https://panendeism.org/gods-interaction-in-panendeism-compared/

I also partially believe we are gods ourselves, clearly we must be finite versions of the infinity, but I don't understand why some of us would come into this reality to end up being tortured to death by a drug cartel. I try to look at it from a nonbiased view like "well, that has to happen as one of the infinite possibilities and that part of god (me and you) had to play that roll" but its just a cop out almost to think God or any of us, would want to suffer a brutal death like that.

The problem of evil is why I choose to believe that God does not intervene with our affairs or the universe at all. 

However, I realized a fatal flaw in my own logic with Classical Deism: I usually condemn the God of the Bible for his evils and demands of worship and sacrifices etc, along with is apparent revelations through his prophets and direct manipulation of mankind, but the Deistic god who does none of that, and he is like the dead beat father who left his kid on someone's porch. I came to this conclusion when I started to reflect what kind of father I would be if I simply made my son and left him to his own devices and never interacted with him or saw him. I made my son, I do not rule over him, but as a father, I would not want to see my son hurt himself. how could God allow evil to exist even if he was distant. Free will cannot even be the answer, which it was for me, but I realized, my son has free will and I would not allow him to be hurt if I could stop it. Yet God of Deism must choose not to stop it.

I'm just spit balling here to see where this convo goes.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Angelo John Gage

[abrakamowse]

You are trying to understand God with the mind. It's not possible.

[Nahm]

Infinity is a good word for self, denoting outside of limits imposed with thinking by illusion of finite self. There’s only self, and self playing. Unimaginable large Universe scale playing, and yet, not at all. SIlence is the only truth, boring in illusion though. God is the writer, all characters, and you the reader - of the Bible or any book. It’s ok to laugh. It’s very funny. 

“Everyone’s so intimately rearranged (Self)...it’s so fun to relate (illusion)...it’s the room, the sun & the sky (only Self)” (Lazy Eye)

”Who made who? Ain’t nobody told you?” ACDC

“How do you know when it’s love? I can’t tell you, but it lasts forever” VH

”Sail” -Awolnation

This “matter” is a living “bible” of Truth; every cell, every atom, every word, all telling you, all the time. All there is is Truth. Nothing is hidden  

What you grieve most will be revealed to be the most humorous. 

[Aimblack]

Even the classical religions have solved the problem of evil long ago. If whatever you perceive to be evil is a problem, then that is a problem with you. But because the abrahamic god is all benevolent he can't be anything but good it is simply not in his nature to be evil, same if you perceive a rock to be soft and spongy then that is a failure on your part because it simply isn't in the nature of the rock to be soft.Therefore the reason you see an issue in the first place is because you are unable to see the whole picture from your limited mind.

With that said at this moment I really don't believe anything and I'm not an agnostic either. I simply suspend judgment on everything I haven't experienced. Leo and the people on this forum like to talk about infinity, christians talk about the holy trinity etc. Unless I haven't had an experience that directly proves or disproves any of that I'm not really invested.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Aimblack

[Monkey-man]

thats conceptualizations. Jesus showed us the direct path

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In Mark, John baptizes Jesus, and as he comes out of the water he sees the Holy Spirit descending to him like a dove and he hears a voice from heaven declaring him to be God's Son

This is stream-entry in Buddhism, Jesus has achieved first self-realization here, Kundalini had bursted through his head and his consciousness localization has escaped his head. Holy Spirit is descending energy that make us enlightened.

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The spirit then drives him into the wilderness where he is tempted by Satan. 

 

After his consciousness localization escaped his head and became everywhere, he is vulnerable and open to this world's energetic stream. But eventually after 40 days he won over temptations and had enlightenment. First dhyana in Buddhism. Or in other words 'born to soul' - end of psychological suffering, fears, doubts, feeling of eternity, bliss, love etc. Ego had started to crumble. Mind is almost silent. But its not yet end of the game.

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Jesus then begins his teachings

He then spends 2 or 3 years being active in the world - it is karma yoga, jnani yoga and bhakti yoga. After first dhyana - ego is still subtly present and can eat your soul and make you a zen devil if you are not mindful enough and follow your spiritual ego's will instead of surrendering fully to God's will. (this is something many enlightened people do these days - they become super-happy after first dhyana and just do whatever their spiritual ego wants. That can make you stuck for ages. Even chosen ones will be deceived (c) jesus).
 

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Jesus performed miracles

 

Throughout his teachings his power to perform miracles has become more and more - it means he eventually reached 4-5-6th dhyana (full enlightenment = infinite consciousness) and maybe even till 9th the last dhyana (Buddhahood = cessation of perceptions). Who knows - but full Buddhahood wasn't his mission. He didn't teach how to escape the world like Buddha but he teach what actually to do in this world and what is going to happen. 4-5th dhyanas are where as Buddha said superpowers might be obtained. So Jesus became conscious of absolute of atman=brahman. 'I am and Father is ONE' (c) Jesus. Mind that he said 'I and God is One'. Not I am God as many enlightened people do these days. That ideas can only boost ego.

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In the Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1–9, Mark 9:2–8, and Luke 9:28–36),[131][132][141] Jesus takes Peter and two other apostles up an unnamed mountain, where "he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became dazzling white.

This is the most important thing here. We tend to think that Jesus taught enlightenment and thats it. No, Jesus taught beyond enlightenment, Jesus taught divinization of the matter! Descendance of heaven into earth. Jesus taught how to give birth to your new supramental body that will then live in actual 'Kingdom of God'! Because quantum leap of evolution = Judgement Day is going to happen that will change Earth. Sri Aurobindo is the only one who really understood that among all the new teachers. So total surrender to God's will + constantly work on diminshing ego after first enlightenment are the keys. 

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Trials and crucifixtion and Ressurection

He actually resurrected, not metaphorically, he gave birth to his new light body.

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Aimblack said:

But because the abrahamic god is all benevolent he can't be anything but good it is simply not in his nature to be evil.

And in the Bible it says good created evil too, the only problem church only teach what is convenient for them or I have no idea why they do that.

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Isaiah 45:7: 

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

God is good, it means that even what it seems bad for us, is good. We have no idea what is good for consciousness.

[Aimblack]

@abrakamowse Only to bring about greater good. There is no relative good without relative evil, The notion of being good loses it's meaning when there is nothing but good. 

[abrakamowse]

@Aimblack  Exactly. We create evil by believing something is good or bad. In reality nothing has any attribute of good or bad, it just is.

Like saying that a Lion is bad because it has to eat a deer.

[Angelo John Gage]

It is certainly bad from the deer's perspective to be eaten by the lion, and good for the lion so it can feed its cubs. You see, what's good for one is always bad for another in this dualism.

When I watch these horrific cartel executions, I don't see how it does any good for anyone involved; especially for the person being murdered. I can only hope the person was deserving of it; maybe a rapist or a pedophile. 

But anyway, most post was trying to see what this forum basically leans towards, and I was assuming the last model in the picture I posted. 

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Angelo John Gage said:

When I watch these horrific cartel executions, I don't see how it does any good for anyone involved; especially for the person being murdered. I can only hope the person was deserving of it; maybe a rapist or a pedophile.

What do you think when Jesus was crucified? And he forgave those who did it, because "they didn't know what they were doing".

It doesn't do any good to anyone to kill other, but they are ignorant. They don't know better. We only have to accept that hard truth of life. We can't change them from ignorant, to being a person with knowledge of what they truly are. Maybe that killing at some points make them see how bad it is and they get awakened, or maybe they construct their own hell for the "afterlife". Who knows?

Edited March 31, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Joseph Maynor]

I’ve gone back and forth with God in my life.  Right now I am in a very atheist stage.  I don’t see any need for God.  Right now belief in God seems very unnecessary to me.  It seems like a story we’ve placed on top of reality.  The belief in God does no work for me.  That’s a way to state it pragmatically.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[abrakamowse]

@Joseph Maynor

I don't make any difference between the label "God" and the label "Reality", but I know others don't do that. They don't get that all are labels and they give God human like attributes. But he doesn't have any attributes and he/she/it is impersonal.

Edited April 1, 2018 by abrakamowse

[Joseph Maynor]

18 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@Joseph Maynor

I don't make any difference between the label "God" and the label "Reality", but I know others don't do that. They don't get that all are labels and they give God human like attributes. But he doesn't have any attributes and he/she/it is impersonal.

I used to think that the universe was in some way serving me.  Now I realize that reality is not working quite like that.  There’s no teleological sense in which this is my movie.  Reality is bigger than the little me running around in the Dream.  There’s no sense in which reality is bending my way or serving my interests.  All of that is a very Egoic set of expectations to place on top of reality.  Reality just is what it is.  But it’s the Ego that wants to do the “for me” maneuver with reality.  

Edited April 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[abrakamowse]

14 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I used to think that the universe was in some way serving me.  Now I realize that reality is not working quite like that.  There’s no teleological sense in which this is my movie.  Reality is bigger than the little me running around in the Dream.  There’s no sense in which reality is bending my way or serving my interests.  All of that is a very Egoic set of expectations to place on top of reality.  Reality just is what it is.  But it’s the Ego that wants to do the “for me” maneuver with reality.  

Reality does whatever it needs for the survival or interest of consciousness. It's not worried about the individual self, that's the hard part to swallow for the ego or the little me. Religious persons associate anything that happen like the Universe or God is helping us, but that's a projection of how they want reality to be. Then reality hit them in their faces, but they will say that is the devil.

Lol

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

Reality does whatever it needs for the survival or interest of consciousness. It's not worried about the individual self, that's the hard part to swallow for the ego or the little me. Religious persons associate anything that happen like the Universe or God is helping us, but that's a projection of how they want reality to be. Then reality hit them in their faces, but they will say that is the devil.

Lol

The thing that was hard for me being religious is I kept getting mad at God for allowing misfortunes to happen to me.  I realized it was a huge script I was running — a cultural game that I was playing.  It caused me a lot of false hope and suffering actually. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The thing that was hard for me being religious is I kept getting mad at God for allowing misfortunes to happen to me.  I realized it was a huge script I was running — a cultural game that I was playing.  It caused me a lot of false hope and suffering actually. 

I totally understand, been there done that. 

[Angelo John Gage]

There is no "need" for God because he doesn't serve you. 

But "need" doesn't mean he doesn't exist. We don't need chocolate, but it exists.

My definition of God, which I came to before I ever found Actualized was simple this:

The Ultimate Facilitator of ALL existence. Anything we attribute to this is our perception and not necessarily true. My post was simply trying to understand this Facilitator is.