Physical Death/Ego Death

[UDT]

On 01/04/2018 at 2:51 PM, Berjohansen said:

Thats being in the moment. Not enlightenment..

Who is in the moment?  See that you chase your own tail

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, UDT said:

You can realize without "dying". To dissolve the ego it takes 5meo or other practices and it is not a permanent state.

@egoless yes, thank you.

@Nahm How can you be the wave and the ocean at the same time?

 

This turns into a debate about beliefs while awakening presupposes that you LET GO OF ALL BELIEFS. As Alan Watts said " Everything is falling with you, you can clinge to something but it will ultimately decay as you will".

How could you not be? Being, and being with the veil, are nonetheless the One. It is God’s veil. Realized or not, it still Is. The most egotistical, “seperate”, hate filled, spiteful, ignorant, insulting, arrogant person - is as much God as the holy man. Realization is different (often), and varies to a very high degree. There is not “another”, there is One Being. 

An exercise to realize this might be to write down two columns, “God”, and “Me”. Write adverbs and adjectives in each column. Do practices, until you resolve the differences, revealing the differences are not in actuality, but only in thought (meanings, definitions, etc)  God is not an idea of God, and yet it is also that. I am not an idea of Me, and yet I am also that. 

God even says stuff like “not a permanent state”.

How do you see it that the wave is not the ocean?

[UDT]

@Nahm  Yes Of course the wave is part of the ocean, realizing it or not. Still you either perceive from the PoV of a wave (your seperate self) even if you know the truth, or you perceive as the ocean (unity, infintiy, god). Thus can you be wave and ocean at the same time? No you are either. Can you be god and a human consciousness at the same time? You cant. Yes you are part of the infinite but in knowing or not knowing, you are still seperate. Thus I´d say you are not god but part of it. (By god I refer to everything there is)

If you perceive infinity and still can focus on writing in this forum, I´ll bow before your wisdom.

 

 

[Nahm]

26 minutes ago, UDT said:

@Nahm  Yes Of course the wave is part of the ocean, realizing it or not (Not part, the infinite is the finite, the whole is in a “part” just the same as the part is “in” the whole, and then there is outside the whole - outside of the dream.

 Still you either perceive from the PoV of a wave (your seperate self) even if you know the truth, or you perceive as the ocean (unity, infintiy, god).

Leo did me a favor a while back and pointed out that I was conflating. You have no idea what anyone thinks, even if they’re telling you to your face, and you have no idea the enormous dynamic spectrum in which reality is perceived. Thinking everyone perceives like you do is a trap. The trick here is to see the favor in this, not the accusation. 

Thus can you be wave and ocean at the same time? No you are either. Can you be god and a human consciousness at the same time? You cant. Yes you are part of the infinite but in knowing or not knowing, you are still seperate. Thus I´d say you are not god but part of it (GOd has no parts, “parts” are illusion of appearance, until realized, then there is no illusion). (By god I refer to everything there is) You can do practices for many, many years, or start psychedelics and get to the realizations very quickly. They can be integrated with practices. What you have said here could be said to be true for you. What’s false, and foundationless, is conflating it, projecting it on everyone else. The paradigm of it, is that it is your consciousness which limits your view. Do the consciousness work, and the world changes right before your eyes. Or don’t, it really makes no difference to me. I like you how you are. 

If you perceive infinity and still can focus on writing in this forum, I´ll bow before your wisdom (definitly take God and Infinity off the pedastool. I have no wisdom).  The thing is, what your meaning for “perceive infinity” is, is your limit. I could say anything, but it would be “filtered” and heard, but unrealized. 

A) I’d do an exercise of making 2 columns; 1 what is in my wheelhouse, and 2 what is utter bullshit that people are kidding themselves about.

B) Then, I’d make 2 columns again; 1 belief, and 2 experience.  Then start listing things from A into these columns. 

If done diligently, and honestly, this could lead to some very big realizations, possibly even a revolutation, and at the least, more open mindedness. It stands to identify what you think you already know from experience, though it is foreign to you. What is foreign to you, is where your progress resides. It is you which has made it “foreign”.

For example, does this make sense....The Christian realizes God through Islam, and the Muslim realizes God through Christianity.

Also, does this make any sense... “You’re still young, that’s your fault.” (Cat Stevens)

 

 

 

 

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

A) I’d do an exercise of making 2 columns; 1 what is in my wheelhouse, and 2 what is utter bullshit that people are kidding themselves about.

B) Then, I’d make 2 columns again; 1 belief, and 2 experience.  Then start listing things from A into these columns. 

Listing from A and noticing if it is a belief or experience?

Is that right?

[Nahm]

@abrakamowse It was kind of a ‘for example’ exercise...but, yeah. I was suggesting doing this get’s things out in front of you so you can see it visually. Then you can question them. For example, most people would put “born” in the experienced column, but upon seeing that, and contemplating it, they would have to (if being honest) move “born” to the belief column, as they did not experience being born. It helps to realize actuality. It’s easy to believe the illusion (that you were born). 

So yeah, after doing A, you’d have listed what you “know” is real or true, and what you “know” is some bullshit.

Once it’s on paper, contemplate each item. A lot, or at least some, of what you know is bullshit, if being honest, is revealed as an assumption / belief, versus something “known” from direct experience.

 

[abrakamowse]

@Nahm  Thanks! Very interesting exercise. I will do it. Thanks again for posting it!

[Forestluv]

On 3/31/2018 at 6:41 PM, Leo Gura said:

There is only one problem with your entire worldview, and that is: you think life's happening to you. Remove the "you" and problem is solved. It's just that simple really. Everything stays the same, but you cease to exist.

But that seems so darn impersonal ?

[pluto]

On 4/1/2018 at 10:51 PM, Berjohansen said:

Thats being in the moment. Not enlightenment..

If you manage to access the absolute present moment you are automatically enlightened. Stay in presence long enough and you will meet the absolute timelesness

Edited April 5, 2018 by pluto