A Zen Monk points to The Absolute / God

[Nahm]

@Timotheus Absolutely, maybe. ?

[Leo Gura]

@UDT No, it is not an experience. It is Infinity.

You will not understand unless you try it.

There is no such thing as experience. There is only Infinity. Infinity is not a belief or an interpretation of an experience as you're assuming.

[Leo Gura]

@GomeGabrielDavid What you think of as "experience" will get recontextualized as Infinity/God.

It's a matter of context.

[Faceless]

@UDT

Its hard for most people to see the trap of experience. Especially when there is such a psychological demand for one. 

I have gone into experience on the forum and nobody really seems to see the significance. Maybe people will find out on there own. I have also brought this up with a few “life longers” and might have even made them regress by showing them the nature of experience. I know one of them has been struggling psychologically ever since. I regret this. I should have been more aware of the consequences before sharing. I have learned from that. If I share again I would only share this on rare occasion with certain people depending on where they are currently at. 

I would just be carful with who you bring it up with. If you have one who has spent there whole life thinking one way and you take that away from them can lead to hell for them. Some may not be ready. 

I understand where you are coming from?

 

 

[Nahm]

 

[Faceless]

It’s the clinging, demand, volition. 

 

First we search to find out who we are, our ego or self. Then the Ego seeing that is illusory then tries to find the self ‘god’...This is the same process repeated over and is an indication of the degree of seeing and understanding that determines the extent of union with the immeasurable. 

 It’s the same ol movement nt of attatchment and grasping for something. Psychological time ‘time bound’ movement falls way short of the timeless. 

The sun doesn’t need to shine on itself. 

Tat Tvam Asi?

 

Don’t be a stage 5 clinger lol 

And remeber,  neti neti 

Edited March 30, 2018 by Faceless

[LastThursday]

On 28/03/2018 at 11:27 AM, cetus56 said:

@Timotheus What he is saying reminded me of something I was contemplating just the other day.

If an enlightened Zen master is walking in the forest and a tree falls, does it make a sound?

If an enlightened Zen master is walking in the forest and afterwards tells you a tree fell, did it make a sound? Every perception 'this' is aware of, is always second-hand - except the perception of 'this'.

[egoless]

On 3/29/2018 at 11:49 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Outer All of those are facets of the Truth, but not the full-Monty. The full-Monty is God/Absolute Infinity itself.

There really isn't consciousness or solipsism. There is only Infinity. Not inside of infinity, but Infinity itself. Everything is Infinity.

This is a radical level of consciousness which is beyond what almost any human being has reached. You are not going to reach it without a superhuman effort, or 5-MeO-DMT. I would not trust most Zen monks to have reached this level of awakening. We are talking about inhuman levels of consciousness the likes of which cannot be imagined, understood, or spoken.

Absolute Infinity solves absolutely all questions. But you will not understand until you drown in it.

Sorry, I wish I could be more helpful, but there's just no way to communicate it.

Mu

Leo lately I can't recognize you. I always knew you as extremely healthy skeptic. Yet you are so sure about your Truth... Which only you know... You are sure you are not deluded. Out of all only you reached that understanding... On shortcut called 5 - Meo -Dmt .... Like seriously what is wrong with you??? Where is old Leo. What has 5 Meo done to you.... Become more skeptic of your experiences on drugs whatever the hell they are.... You are claiming that you reached absolute top of understanding in 1 year with drugs when fully committed zen monks don't experience what you do in decades... 

That is the reason you are going further and further away from True non-duality.... You are clinging to your experiences on drug... 

Edited March 31, 2018 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

@egoless You have been given the proper guidance. There is nothing else I can do to help you and I am not going to bend over backwards to countervail your ignorance for you.

Discover for yourself what is true. If you ever do, you may hear my voice telling you, "I told you so."

[Timotheus]

@egoless @Outer

 

[kieranperez]

@egoless if you don't like his advice then don't listen. Do it your own way. He's not pressing you to do anything. To think that is to be in your own little bubble not actually listening to the multiple times he's said that psychedelics is a path he wants to explore in what it can do in terms of growth on the nondual/spiritual path. He has said multiple times that you don't have to do psychedelics to attain the greatest states of consciousness that are possible. "If you want to do it the old school way, do it the old school way." 

Understand that all you're doing is projecting your frustrations, judgments expectations, etc. which mean absolutely nothing particularly onto someone who I assume you've never met in person. If you don't like the teacher you've been subscribed to, do what you can always do in say college, drop that teacher/class. 

Leo has his path which he wishes to share, document, teach, etc. That's his path & his choice. If you don't resonate with a lot of what he's saying regarding psychedelics, follow his other teachings that don't talk about it and apply that. 

The person whose ignorant often doesn't know the medicine they need. Hence the ignorance. Keep an open mind... Or don't. Up to you.

Edited March 31, 2018 by kieranperez

[Key Elements]

I feel that this thread brings up an important quotation to take into consideration:

For this to really work, there has to be a clear understanding of what the other person is saying. You can't just discredit everything. Each meaning has to be understood clearly.

[Timotheus]

@Key Elements @kieranperez @egoless @Leo Gura @LastThursday @Faceless @cetus56 @cirkussmile @Moreira @UDT @Key Elements @Nahm @Neo @iamme @Outer

He just uploaded a part 2

 

[egoless]

@Leo Gura I am on your side... I am not fighting you why don’t you understand. I want you to collapse the duality once and forever. If you had the biggest realization possible on 5 Meo as you say then why is your experience and perception still dualistic? I am only trying to tell you to be more skeptical towards those drugs... Openmindedness is good but there are lines. You don’t know what side effects these drugs could have on you in a long run. I just want you to be healthy and you take my wake up calls as an assault... I am on your side man! 

@kieranperez It’s not about what I like. You never know the side effects of the drugs in the long run. Especially such a powerful one as 5 Meo... It may drive you insane. Who studied them long run... there is so little known. And Leo uses psychadelics heavily as far as I know. I just want him to be more skeptical and careful not to hurt himself... Moreover sharing what he sees on drugs on youtube is dangerous imho. Because people who never experienced themselves can just turn it into a belief system which may lead to nihilism. There were some posts about suicide lately. I’m not saying it’s because of Leo... We don’t know what caused delusions... but everyone should be more careful when sharing perspectives... There is a reason why most Enlightened people don’t talk about Truth directly!!!

Edited March 31, 2018 by egoless

[Esoteric]

@egoless People have been using both 5-meo-dmt and n,n-DMT for thousands of years in shamanic traditions. These are not new substances. Besides, tryptamines and phenetylamines are generally safe to use. Alexander Shulgin synthesized a staggering amount of these substances and tested them on himself for many decades. The dude easily had over 4000 trips. He became 88 years old and lived a good life.

 

Maybe you should focus more on your own path? If it upsets you that Leo says things you don't want him to say then maybe you should take a look at your own process? Just saying.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Esoteric

[LastThursday]

@UDT I have a similar problem with 5-MeO DMT but from a different perspective.

If you read the following sentence:

"You are feeling sleepy."

Maybe you will have start having thoughts of going to bed or chilling out or whatever. What's so special about this sentence that has that effect? Not much, other than it's written in English in words you understand. The letters themselves and their arrangement are abritary and have no intrinsic effect in of themselves. But the effect is to modulate your experience in some way. And this only works because your mind casts an 'English' net over the symbols.

Now what if I talk about Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen and Oxygen, the letters of biological chemistry? The same applies. If you arrange and combine just these elements you get very different substances (materialism, humour me). For example Melatonin (C13H16N2O2) also makes you sleepy. It also modulates your experience. This time, your body interprets the chemical words by casting a 'Human Chemistry' net over the symbols.

5-MeO DMT (C13H18N2O) is just another chemical word very very similar to Melotonin, but with a drastically different modulation (effect) of experience - the difference between 'sleepy' and 'absolute infinity'.

If I said there was a sentence in English that would induce 'absolute infinity', you'd say I was misguided at least.

The only thing that could be happening here is that experience is being so extremely modulated that it's unrecognisable to everyday experience.

But then again, I haven't actually taken the stuff, so what do I know, maybe I'll end up eating my words?

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by LastThursday
Grammar.

[Leo Gura]

@LastThursday Lol

Man... the lengths your guys' ego-minds go to deny God is quite amusing.

Everything you call science is a hallucination.

Ain't no such thing as chemicals or brains, only hallucinated stories of such.

I perfectly understand you're skeptical. But it just so happens to be a delusion.

Take a few tabs of LSD and you'll quickly see this is so. Nevermind 5-MeO. Learn to walk before you fly.

[Nahm]

[egoless]

@Leo Gura I am sure I’ve “seen” much of what you have but still I am skeptical to those experiences.... I’ve discovered much more during my strongest meditation and contemplation experiences... 

yes your source is unmanifested infinity but way you are conceptualizing it theough dmt just holds you back...

Edited March 31, 2018 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Leo Gura I’ve “seen” what you have

No, you haven't.

You cannot imagine what I have seen. Otherwise all your skepticism would be snuffed out.

To truly see, the frameworks of your mind require lots of contemplation and deconstruction. Without that deconstruction, the old materialist rationalist paradigm will swoop in and contextual the thing you're seeing into "just an experience", which it is not.

There are many, many depths of seeing and groking. You have only licked the surface of the Popsicle. Keep licking!