What comes after capitalism?

[Rebec]

We are living (according to many) in the 'late' stages of capitalism. What comes after capitalism?

[Prabhaker]

21 minutes ago, Rebec said:

What comes after capitalism?

Communism is the ultimate flowering of capitalism.

Marx's communism means, destroy the rich, divide the riches equally. That's what they have done in Russia, in China. The poor are still poor, but in a way satisfied because the riches have been distributed. The rich people have been destroyed. The comparison has disappeared; now there is nobody rich to make you feel poor. You are still poor. The poverty, of course, is equally distributed. Everybody is equally poor, so nobody can compare, nobody can feel jealous. Nobody can think that things can be better than they are.

I am not in favor of distributing poverty, of destroying the rich. So I say no to the communism that exists today, the Marxian communism. But I say yes to a totally different concept of communism. To me communism is the last and the highest stage of capitalism.

It is not against capitalism that communism can succeed. It is in the fulfillment of capitalism that communism happens.

Capitalism is the first system in the world which creates capital, wealth. Before, there was feudalism -- it never created wealth; it exploited people, it robbed people. The wealth that the kings had in the past was a crime. It was exploited, forcibly taken from the people, from the poor; it was not their creation.

Capitalism is the first system which creates wealth. It needs intelligence to create wealth. And unless we create so much wealth that wealth loses all meaning, unless we create a standard of wealth so high that the poor automatically start becoming richer.... Nobody can eat wealth -- what are you going to do with it? There comes a point of saturation. And when capitalism comes to the point of saturation, then only comes the flowering of communism. Hence I call my community a commune. Communism, the word communism, is made from 'commune'.

I believe in capitalism. Perhaps I am the only person in the whole world to say so clearly that I believe in capitalism, because this is the first time in the history of man that a system is there which creates wealth, and can create so much wealth that with science and scientific technology added to it, there is no need for poverty. There is no need for distributing wealth, it will be distributed automatically. There is no need for any dictatorship of the proletariat. Capitalism can remain perfectly in tune with democracy, with individuality, with freedom of speech. It destroys nothing.

So my approach is that we have to spread the idea of creating wealth rather than distributing it. What are you going to distribute if you don't have it in the first place?

Even Marx never said that communism would happen in Russia or China, because these countries are so poor -- what are you going to distribute? Even Marx's idea was that communism would happen first in America. But it happened in Russia. Of course, it is something false. It is something not exactly making people happier and richer and freer, but spoiling all that they have and giving them a false hope that, "Soon you will all be rich." When will that 'soon' come? Sixty years have passed, more than sixty, since the revolution. All the revolutionaries have died. All were hoping that it is coming. Russia has remained poor, is still poor.

Even the poorest man in America is in a better position than a well-salaried person in Russia. And what they have lost is of immense value. They have lost freedom, they have lost individuality, they have lost freedom of expression. They have lost everything. They are living in a vast concentration camp: no justice available, nowhere to appeal, no possibility to be heard.

I am against this kind of communism; this is so destructive. But I have my own idea of communism; hence I say yes and no. 'No' for the communism that you are aware of, and 'yes' for the communism of which I am continually talking to you.

Create wealth, richness. And now that science and technology have given you all the means to create it, it is simply foolish to think of distribution. Forget about distribution. Create it so much that it comes to a saturation point. Then from there it starts spreading to everyone.

Communism is the ultimate flowering of capitalism.

From Unconciousness to Consciousness by Osho

Originally published as "The Rajneesh Bible Volume 1". Title changed 1991.

[Monkey-man]

communism of course, people will have all the food, shelter and all the basics provided by governments. These will mark end of capitalism as we know it today. First countries to reach that stage are Scandinavians. The golden era of wealthy and peaceful and spiritual times on Earth with unification of all nations and with 90% of the world population being enlightened will begin in approx 22 century and last until approx 25 century and then it will be followed by rise of 1 or 2 centuries of antichrist's rule when even enlightened people won't be able to abstain from his influence, and anarchic war that will follow after his death. War will be ended with the judgement day which is the quantum leap of evolution, homo sapeinses will be transformed into new race, then there is no need in money and economy at all.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Monkey-man

[Nahm]

@Rebec A tipping point, eventually. When it’s commonly realized to be dreaming, we can dream a better dream. We think we’re living in physical shortages and abundances. That will change. Not any time soon. 

[Moreira]

i think the next step is a universal rent that guarantees a decent life for everybody, where the machines will do all the work( still can do it) but big corporations and rich people wont let it happen becvause they are in the throne

[Joseph Maynor]

Definitely not Communism, I can tell you that.

[krazzer]

1 hour ago, Rebec said:

We are living (according to many) in the 'late' stages of capitalism. What comes after capitalism?

I think universal basic income. After that, moneyless society.

[Timotheus]

43 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Not any time soon. 

Can't be, the spiritual marketplace is selling the idea of global mass awakening in 3..2..1

lol

[Nahm]

@Timotheus lol.    We’re all loopin right back into the love. Such are all things. 

[Rilles]

Probably Post-Capitalism, a less materialistic form of capitalism where we are more self reliant (homegrown food for example). 

[Leo Gura]

Collapse from excess materialism.

[Joel3102]

People gotta stop ragging on capitalism so much. It’s the only viable economic system that can work when society gets to a certain level. The more important variable is the level of consciousness the people who are engaging in the capitalist system are at. 

[Erlend K]

I don't like capitalism, but in the short-mid term I view it the same way Chirchill viewed democracy: It's the worst system ever deviced, except for all the alternatives.

There are a lot of unknowns about the future of the global economy, but barring any major unexpected shocks (like nuclear war/major revolutions) we can expect the current trends to continue in the short term:

-Increased concentration of whealth among a few companies and individuals. A decade ago the richest 60-80 people or so in the world owned as much as the bottom 50 %. Today the number has shrunk to the richest 8 people. The trend seams likely to continue for a while.

-Automatication/robotication will lead to mass unemployment. Experts disagree on how fast this trend will be, but most agree that most jobs will be taken over by machines sometime by the middle of this century. The only plausible results of this seams to be some kind of universal salary, assuming liberal democracies will have the income to provide this. If most of the cutting edge AI tech is owned by Chinese state-owned companies and a handfull capitalists with residency in tax paradises, I'm not sure how most governments are going to afford this universal sallary.

-China will complete it's "One Belt One Road Initiative", and take over as the major global economic power. This might lead to a spread of it's model of totalitarian mixed-economy, as liberal democratic capitalism will be shown uncapable at competing with the chinese model. For instance the chineese government has set a strategic goal of becoming world leading in AI, and is investing massively it. At the same time the US government is cutting is funding of AI. China is expanding it's foreign networks at the same the US is withdrawing from the global stage and slashing funding for its state department, etc. The jokers here are chinas massive dept and real estate bubble, but as long as the governent avoid mass unrest, these might just be speed bumps.

-Renewable energy will gradualy replace carbon based energy. In the mid-term this will likely result in a price war between the major oil producers, as each oil producing country want to make sure that as little of their own oil/gas is left worthless in the ground when the oil age ends, by the mid 21'st century. Crashing oil prizes will likely lead to an economic boom in most non-oil producing countries as the cost of manufacturing will drop.

-Global warming will pass 1,5 degrees sometime in the 2030's, and 2 degrees in the 2040's, and it's most serious effects will start kicking in. This will lead to major costs for western governments that might already be under economic strain form the transfer to a post-work society with a universal sallary. In addition it is expected to result in one of the largest reffuge crises in history. The UN estimates about 100 million climate reffugees by 2050. Commin on top of the other major economic transitions of the period this wil be massively disruptive.

-A massive technology boost in what is expected to be the three major tech areas of the 21'st century: Nanotech, Biotech and AI. It is really impossible to predict how thech disruptions will transform the economy in the mid- to long term.

The long term: The mid-late 21'st century and the 22'nd century: Completely is impossible to predict. Genetic engineering and AI-brain integration will transform our descendants into a different kind of creature with different desires and abilities than us. What kind of economic system these creatures will form is impossible for lower creatures like us to predict.

[Neo]

Quote

What comes after capitalism?

It's going to be a special form a rulership never seen before whereby I am KING. Now... all bow down to Neo!

[Rilles]

Leo-ism and the capital of the world will be Leograd and nonduality will be the only tolerated religion, Strong Detetmination Sitting for 12 hrs will be mandatory everyday for all plebs.

[Neo]

I'm beginning to formulate my rules and regulations. We rule by strong discipline. If people mis-behave we take action by giving them a jolly good spanking with this:

 

 

[Staples]

Communism on paper sounds great. But it is not feasible. It's actually a very high consciousness system, it is so advanced I don't think we'll be able to achieve a healthy communist system with our current cultural climate at all. It also needs some work, communism is based on a victim narrative. That needs to go. 

Sharing the means of production and eliminating privately owned property would probably require a fully enlightened society. Marx and the rest of his merry band are so possessed by their ideological vision that they couldn't see society as a whole was not ready for it. I'm not in favour of communism, at least in our time. 

I think a shift will occur when we become so productive unemployment for a large majority becomes inevitable. Jobs being replaced by machines will slowly phase out lots of professions. And if computers ever learn how to write their own code, you can say goodbye to every programmer ever. At that point, we'll be forced to redistribute wealth to those who no longer have employable skills just so they survive. 

The only way to avoid that future is to continue to invest in tech. We'll need to create jobs at the same rate they get phased out. How we do that is beyond little old me. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Staples

[abrakamowse]

12 hours ago, Staples said:

Sharing the means of production and eliminating privately owned property would probably require a fully enlightened society. Marx and the rest of his merry band are so possessed by their ideological vision that they couldn't see society as a whole was not ready for it. I'm not in favour of communism, at least in our time. 

Maybe worker cooperatives? There are several companies working like that, one of them in New York and it has proven to be very successful.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/the-end-of-poverty/how-america-s-largest-worker-owned-co-op-lifts-people-out-of-poverty 

Quote

 

How America's Largest Worker Owned Co-Op Lifts People Out of Poverty

Cooperative Home Care Associates has 2,300 workers who enjoy good wages, regular hours, and family health insurance. With an investment of $1.2 million into the cooperative sector, New York City is hoping to build on the group's success.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

More on the topic:

 

 

[SOUL]

Well, if people had any common sense in the US there would be a social market economy variant even though through the random unfolding of circumstance there seems to be a disjointed, conflicted and corrupted version of one happening.

Watching people worship at the alter of the almighty dollar and capitalism using a knee jerk reaction comparison to socialism or communism in an attempt to defend it is an indication of their inability to think for themselves.

Capitalism only values profit and humanity is only another commodity in that system, it's ineffective and flawed for managing society so it will eventually bankrupt it in every way possible, especially in spirit.