Kriya Yoga Mega-Thread

[MountainCactus]

18 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus How do you KNOW this? To me it sounds like a belief and spiritual dogma.

As for the first part about the practices, it comes both from personal experience that verified both what my teacher said and what I've learned in my studies (I really read way, way ,way too much...), combined with the experiences I've seen in talking to others that has also confirmed it.

For the second part, I listed karma as cause and effect. This is about as scientific, logical, and common sense as it can be presented. It's also about as far from "belief and spiritual dogma" as one can get. FWIW we can really get deep into the paradox, where since cause and effect chains are so obvious all around us, how can there not be karma? Yet if all things are always the One, how can there be karma? The paradox runs deep in all things spiritual, and this paradox can fuel a never ending argument that can never fully be resolved. But our body/minds experience duality on a daily basis, so it would be foolish to brush it off as long as you're in a body, imo. I could really get deep into my thoughts on karma and rebirth, but it would be off topic, and my words on the matter tend to piss both the spiritual and non-spiritual people off because I always look at both sides of the paradox which both proves and disproves both sides. Either way, that is neither here nor there. As long as you're experiencing the dual world "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". 

Edited December 14, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Alrighty then... So what happened to the karma you assumed from the authors? You are in the process of working off all their karma or the link immedietely broke when you stopped their practices? The internet must create one hell of a karmic mess then as far as spiritual teachings goes, must be the Devil's invention  Let's hope there are not a lot of rapists and theifs advicing people to follow their breath. Sounds like a good idea to follow if you want to increase your paranoia and fear.

 

 

[MountainCactus]

27 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Alrighty then... So what happened to the karma you assumed from the authors? You are in the process of working off all their karma or the link immedietely broke when you stopped their practices? The internet must create one hell of a karmic mess then as far as spiritual teachings goes, must be the Devil's invention  Let's hope there are not a lot of rapists and theifs advicing people to follow their breath. Sounds like a good idea to follow if you want to increase your paranoia and fear.

The karma you assumed from the authors is right here posted below. This is the effect of the practices you assumed from them:

6 hours ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Yeah, I actually haven't done Kriya for months, as I was starting to feel energetically unbalanced. My body couldn't keep up with the energy.

Cause and effect. Tamasic in turned into tamasic out. Who would have thought? And what other effects happened to your body both physically and mentally when you became "energetically unbalanced"? This can do a lot of harm under the covers. It's more than just "feeling" bad. Your feeling bad is nothing more than a symptom of bad things happening under the covers.

Edited December 14, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus And how do you explain people having good effects from the same practice?

[MountainCactus]

6 minutes ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus And how do you explain people having good effects from the same practice?

Define "good effects"? And who is having "good effects" from these practices? I do not hear anyone on this forum saying they've reached enlightenment or gained any meaningful realizations from this. I do not hear anyone saying they've reached a state of spontaneous breathlessness (Kevala Kumbhaka) from these practices. I do not hear anyone here that has said these practices have led them to see the spiritual eye or hear the astral sounds. I do not hear anyone here saying these practices led them to a real state of Samadhi. These are the only effects that matter in Kriya, and they are completely non-existent here. Coincidence?

Edited December 14, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus This thread isn't even 2 years old. There could be a lot of factors playing in. Have you read the whole thread? I am not defending the books even as I don't follow them or admire the teachers. Ennio seems like the most decent one. Also it made me get in contact with the subtle body and the sushumna, so that's positive. I am at a good place now, so in the end I am really glad I did follow the books.

[MountainCactus]

Just now, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus This thread isn't even 2 years old. There could be a lot of factors playing in. Have you read the whole thread? I am not defending the books even as I don't follow them or admire the teachers. Ennio seems like the most decent one. Also it made me get in contact with the subtle body and the sushumna, so that's positive. I am at a good place now, so in the end I am really glad I did follow the books.

Yes I actually did read the entire thread prior to even signing up on the forum. It broke my heart to be honest, seeing the lack of progress and negative effects. The thread doesn't need to be 2 years old. 2 years is long enough to see that the progress is not there. I had checked off about half the "effects" I listed above within the first 3 months alone of working with my teacher.

I will agree (and think I mentioned most earlier) that of the authors Ennio is probably the lesser of the evils, since he is not trying to profit from it. I will also say that his first Kriya of Lahiri is the closest to what I've learned, though there still some key differences. I will say through that his second, third  and forth Kriya are very incredibly far off of what I was taught. The incredible effects I have gotten from second and third Kriya just would not be possible with his technique. I also think his general recommendation that new people should practice Mukerjee's Kriya and spend all day long at the Kutastha is a very poor recommendation as that practice is very imbalanced and can cause many issues. I know as a personal example if I over stimulate my Kutastha I cannot function. I feel deeply drugged, and not in a good way. I am unable to be productive at work or to interact with others. It's not good. One cannot live life from the "third eye". It's too far beyond matter. There is a reason Lahiri stimulates the Ajna chakra, then brings it back down to ground out, particularly into the heart and navel chakras. This is a fundamental part of Kriya that cannot be thrown out, imo. 

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Ok, interesting. It was the chanting in the third eye I did, which made me very unbalanced. I also put my attention there all the time as soon as I caught myself not being present. I work at reception with an average of about 15 mins of actual work each day. But in the end it created real bad emotional storms. So for some months I didn't focus there, or tried not too.

Interestingly, now I can be stabilized there with no problems, and when I sink into it deeply, it encompasses the other chakras and attention goes where it needs. I don't feel the sushumna in the third eye as I have heard people say. Perhaps sometimes, really subtly, but intuitively it feels like that's where it is going. Yogananda said to focus on the third eye at all times to hasten spiritual growth. Now, this can potentially create problems, so it's not really a responsible advice, but there is definitely something to it I feel.

[MountainCactus]

1 minute ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Ok, interesting. It was the chanting in the third eye I did, which made me very unbalanced. I also put my attention there all the time as soon as I caught myself not being present. I work at reception with an average of about 15 mins of actual work each day. But in the end it created real bad emotional storms. So for some months I didn't focus there, or tried not too.

Interestingly, now I can be stabilized there with no problems, and when I sink into it deeply, it encompasses the other chakras and attention goes where it needs. I don't feel the sushumna in the third eye as I have heard people say. Perhaps sometimes, really subtly, but intuitively it feels like that's where it is going. Yogananda said to focus on the third eye at all times to hasten spiritual growth. Now, this can potentially create problems, so it's not really a responsible advice, but there is definitely something to it I feel.

There's a gas pedal and a brake in a car for a reason. One shouldn't just keep hitting the gas and forget the brake exists. Eventually you will crash. Yogananda did say for people to focus on the spiritual eye at all times to accelerate progress. But if someone was having issues and went to him I'm sure he would have told them to stop. Yogananda was also known to monitor his direct disciples very closely. His higher Kriyas also still began to favor the heart over the spiritual eye. And even in his first Kriya, you're still brining the energy back down, not just sitting up there. 

Also, kundalini in my experience tends to go in phases of high tide and low tide. So for now, it sounds like you're in low tide and you're able to handle it, so if you want to pump the gas a bit and keep attention at your third eye or medulla throughout the day, no big deal. But when high tide inevitably hits again, my recommendation would be to let off the gas and pump the brake. One way you can do that is in your day to day life, instead of focusing at the spiritual eye at all times, bring the heart and/or navel as your focus. 

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Yeah, I hear you. That's what I learned the hard way. When the unbalance really hit me I become focused on grounding and really saw the importance of it.

[MountainCactus]

1 minute ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Yeah, I hear you. That's what I learned the hard way. When the unbalance really hit me I become focused on grounding and really saw the importance of it.

Yes, I also find it important to stay physically active in some way, shape, or form. If I start getting lazy and don't get my exercise in for a couple days, then I start feeling like I could bounce off the walls, haha. This is so ironically funny because I was one of those people that since I was a teenager struggled with "low energy", and now my luxury problem is I have too much, haha. 

There is also a degree of auto-regulation that I do in my practices. I know by feel where the optimal place is for me to swap from first to second Kriya, and I know by feel the optimal place to swap from second to third Kriya, etc. It's not the same number of Kriyas every day that gets me there, so I do not do the same amount of Kriyas every day. Some days are always going to be better or worse than others. But in the times I'm in "high tide" on my kundalini, it is a great boon to my practices. I am able to much less Kriyas and transition really quickly between the levels, and in turn spend much more time melting away in Paravastha.

[remember]

5 hours ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Alrighty then... So what happened to the karma you assumed from the authors? You are in the process of working off all their karma or the link immedietely broke when you stopped their practices? The internet must create one hell of a karmic mess then as far as spiritual teachings goes, must be the Devil's invention  Let's hope there are not a lot of rapists and theifs advicing people to follow their breath. Sounds like a good idea to follow if you want to increase your paranoia and fear.

 

 

somehow this inspires me to do some word yoga - prananoia - how do you like this? too bad the video about fear was already done.

Edited December 14, 2019 by remember
prananoia - the fear of breathing out too loud, of brething in too much, of sounding like darth vader.

[Leo Gura]

@MountainCactus What you are not acknowledging is that the techniques in the books work for many people.

You are speaking as though the books are some BS which don't work for anyone.

The spiritual path is full of various problems. This is par for the course. Dealing with them is part of the path.

[Cocolove]

I've noticed how powerful kriya yoga is totally depending on my level of consciousness. If i am busy and mindless thorughout the day, it really does nothing, and it is hard to focus. If I am somewhat mindful throughout the day, it works good. When I was on a retreat, it worked insanely well and was more powerful than any other time.

[MountainCactus]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@MountainCactus What you are not acknowledging is that the techniques in the books work for many people.

You are speaking as though the books are some BS which don't work for anyone.

The spiritual path is full of various problems. This is par for the course. Dealing with them is part of the path.

One must define the word "work".

Can the books create a nice spiritual high? Absolutely. Can the books create some mystical kundalini experiences? Of course. Can the books bring someone into Savikalpa Samadhi? I sure haven't heard anyone get there from it. Can the books bring someone into full Nirvikalpa Samadhi? I don't think so.

Do not forget, I have seen both sides of this. I started with the books originally myself. I know their limitations from first hand experience. I know, understand, and have experienced first hand the technical reasons why they will fall short of the ultimate goals. Is there anyone else here that has experience with both sides? I suspect Kerk does, based on his comments earlier in the thread. Aside from him, I think the only thing anyone here knows is the books. If all anyone ever drank was green tea, how would they know the effects that coffee would have on them? Moreover, how silly would it sound to someone who had drank coffee to hear this inexperienced person pass the judgement that green tea and coffee were the same thing? Does the green tea "work"? To a point. But it sure doesn't get the job done like coffee does!

Either way, I'm beginning to grow bored of the conversation. I've accomplished my goal of putting my knowledge out there into the ether, and now anyone who needs to hear it will. And those that do not want to hear it, won't. And this is exactly as it should be.

Edited December 15, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

2 hours ago, remember said:

somehow this inspires me to do some word yoga - prananoia - how do you like this? too bad the video about fear was already done.

I like it. Though personally I would prefer "pranaoia", then you would keep the same letters from the original word.

[remember]

@MountainCactus it`s probably good to mention, that there are points where we reach developmental limitations, not only in kriya but all forms of yoga. if that`s the case a teacher is probably not the worst idea. the books then still are there as a crutch - something that was helpful at the beginning - not everyone will get so deep into it, so for some people the books with additional youtube videos might be sufficient. for people who started with regular yoga a book might be easier than for someone who is new to the practice. you know while in rome all paths lead through rome.

@Esoteric in german it would be pranaoja

[MountainCactus]

12 hours ago, remember said:

@MountainCactus it`s probably good to mention, that there are points where we reach developmental limitations, not only in kriya but all forms of yoga. if that`s the case a teacher is probably not the worst idea. the books then still are there as a crutch - something that was helpful at the beginning - not everyone will get so deep into it, so for some people the books with additional youtube videos might be sufficient. for people who started with regular yoga a book might be easier than for someone who is new to the practice. you know while in rome all paths lead through rome.

I do not disagree with this on a general basis for the average person. All of my comments in this thread are targeted specifically at people that are serious about Kriya, that truly want to follow this path through to it's conclusion. If someone doesn't want to reach the end of the Kriya road, if they are just dipping their toes into the water to see what it's like, if they just want to try to "awaken kundalini", if they just want to generate a spiritual high, or if they are just a general yoga practitioner then they can carry on. My comments are not for these people. I would rather these people not waste the valuable time of the true teachers that we have out there. If someone really wants to merge in Samadhi with the star inside the Kutastha (which is the ultimate end game of the Kriya techniques) then they are going to need a teacher that has both been there and proven to know how to guide others there as well.

[remember]

@MountainCactus just be aware: the lord moves in misterious ways. some try to take a different road every day, to know the city, does not mean to take the same road or the most direct road every day. there is not one right way/path and some people will achieve it more easily than others. some might give it up after a while and then return to it later. the will to try is already enough for a beginner.

it`s a little arrogant to expect that only people with an goal aiming approach are around here, maybe some want their star to sit somewhere else - then why in a self actualization forum and not a kriya forum? lifting up people should be the goal, but looking down on them, no no, not good. you say you would not want to waste the precious time of the masters... then what should be the approach for someone who doesn`t know yet? better not start at all? i`m sure that a challenge and an aim can`t be the wrong approach, though i don`t think one of them is required to learn kriya and advance in it.

as i said everyone seems to reach a self referential limit at a point - that`s when it`s time to change from book to teacher.

Edited December 15, 2019 by remember

[MountainCactus]

4 hours ago, remember said:

@MountainCactus just be aware: the lord moves in misterious ways. some try to take a different road every day, to know the city, does not mean to take the same road or the most direct road every day. there is not one right way/path and some people will achieve it more easily than others. some might give it up after a while and then return to it later. the will to try is already enough for a beginner.

it`s a little arrogant to expect that only people with an goal aiming approach are around here, maybe some want their star to sit somewhere else - then why in a self actualization forum and not a kriya forum? lifting up people should be the goal, but looking down on them, no no, not good. you say you would not want to waste the precious time of the masters... then what should be the approach for someone who doesn`t know yet? better not start at all? i`m sure that a challenge and an aim can`t be the wrong approach, though i don`t think one of them is required to learn kriya and advance in it.

as i said everyone seems to reach a self referential limit at a point - that`s when it`s time to change from book to teacher.

I am not being arrogant at all. I'm simply filling a void by being a voice for a side that was not present here. There was a desperate need for someone with actual experience here in this forum. There are some common themes in this thread that I had to play the other side on, because no one else was here to do so. If no one else is going to state the truth, then I will. People are free to take or leave my advise. What was important was that someone at least had to say it. This may not be a Kriya Yoga forum, but this sure is a Kriya Yoga thread. You do not see me out in other threads giving my opinion on topics that I am not an exert in do you? No, I stay in my wheelhouse. And if you actually read through all my posts in this thread I have specifically stated that I also started with the books, and that they can be a gateway drug of sorts for people, and that is perfectly fine. I think you're looking for an argument where there is not one. Once again, my comments are specifically and only for those that are really serious about the Kriya path, those that are having negative energy effects from those techniques, or those that are having a lack of meaningful progress with those techniques. I apologize if in some way I came across as anything but that.

Also, as for my recommendation for what someone who is new and/or doesn't yet know if they want to follow the Kriya path should do, I actually commented on a different thread about this earlier this morning. You can see my recommendations for this person here: 

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by MountainCactus