Kriya Yoga Mega-Thread

[Pernani]

12 hours ago, MountainCactus said:

Forget the body. Just feel for the location of the chakra. If it's higher than you expect, then it's higher than you expect. My teacher/guru told me to start from the front if I had to. The front of the chakra is generally easier to find than the root in the spine. Your 3rd chakra is where fear and anger are projected into your body. Think of that feeling you get in your stomach when you are angry or afraid. That is where Manipura is. Chant OM into that and over time follow it back into the spine. Navi Kriya would be highly recommended. The sacral chakra is where sexual feelings are projected. Start there and work your way back to the spine over time. This needs to become an intuitive process, not a physical process. So forget the body and locations and just feel.

It's true that front chakras are easier, but I never focused on those, thanks ill give it a try! Why does kriya not focus on the front chakras tho? Arent those important too? 

[llumi]

Thanks you for replies & help @kerk@Esoteric@GreenWoods

I've done more grounding activities (gym, dancing, yoga etc) and am no longer experiencing panic during kriya, only in other times. So that's good! 

Haven't tried shamanic breathing but I've been to holotropic breathwork sessions. Last time I vomited, mostly physical stuff. It's interesting and frustrating for I don't experience any panic or fear when doing breathwork: how to get to the root then? Still, afterwards, the feeling of terror has moved from my lower abdomen area to chest. I don't know.. 

[MountainCactus]

5 hours ago, Pernani said:

It's true that front chakras are easier, but I never focused on those, thanks ill give it a try! Why does kriya not focus on the front chakras tho? Arent those important too? 

They're both connected. If you start doing OM japa from the front you will kind of notice the onion of the chakra starts to peel back over time. The chakra calms down and silences, and when that happens the place you really feel the OM starts moving back closer into the spine until eventually you enter the sushumna. Once you are in the sushumna you have entered a full state of Pratyahara, the body has completely faded away, and then the chakras can slowly retreat back into the medulla. From here you can enter the Kutastha, which is where you go from Dharana, to Dhyana, and finally to Samadhi. The goal of Kriya is the exact opposite of Kundalini Yoga, it's not to "open" or energize the chakras, it's to silence them and eventually to go completely beyond them.

So even if you start at the front, you wind up in the same place. It's totally ok to start in the front, especially for someone who is new and still trying to find and lock in the position of each chakra. What you are doing with your OM japa is the Battle of Kurukshetra described in the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna says that you fight the battle in the body, and this is what you are doing in proper Kriya (now, unfortunately the Kriya described in the books and major organizations are not "proper Kriya"... but that's a discussion for another day). This is why Lahiri Baba said that Kriya without OM japa is tamasic... because OM japa is the heart of Kriya. Without OM Japa, there is no Kriya. Energizing the body and chakras leads to lots of psychedelic experience, but it is of little spiritual value. If you energize the body and the chakras you are strengthening your ego and your ties to your body and the world, and this is the opposite of what you want to do. You want to go beyond the chakras, beyond the ego, beyond the body, beyond the world, beyond kundalini... into true ever-lasting Nirvikalpa Samadhi, and the only way there is through the Battle of Kurukshetra which is the battle that the proper Kriya of Lahiri Mahasaya is designed specifically to fight.

Edited November 6, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Pernani]

4 hours ago, MountainCactus said:

They're both connected. If you start doing OM japa from the front you will kind of notice the onion of the chakra starts to peel back over time. The chakra calms down and silences, and when that happens the place you really feel the OM starts moving back closer into the spine until eventually you enter the sushumna. Once you are in the sushumna you have entered a full state of Pratyahara, the body has completely faded away, and then the chakras can slowly retreat back into the medulla. From here you can enter the Kutastha, which is where you go from Dharana, to Dhyana, and finally to Samadhi. The goal of Kriya is the exact opposite of Kundalini Yoga, it's not to "open" or energize the chakras, it's to silence them and eventually to go completely beyond them.

So even if you start at the front, you wind up in the same place. It's totally ok to start in the front, especially for someone who is new and still trying to find and lock in the position of each chakra. What you are doing with your OM japa is the Battle of Kurukshetra described in the Bhagavad Gita. Krishna says that you fight the battle in the body, and this is what you are doing in proper Kriya (now, unfortunately the Kriya described in the books and major organizations are not "proper Kriya"... but that's a discussion for another day). This is why Lahiri Baba said that Kriya without OM japa is tamasic... because OM japa is the heart of Kriya. Without OM Japa, there is no Kriya. Energizing the body and chakras leads to lots of psychedelic experience, but it is of little spiritual value. If you energize the body and the chakras you are strengthening your ego and your ties to your body and the world, and this is the opposite of what you want to do. You want to go beyond the chakras, beyond the ego, beyond the body, beyond the world, beyond kundalini... into true ever-lasting Nirvikalpa Samadhi, and the only way there is through the Battle of Kurukshetra which is the battle that the proper Kriya of Lahiri Mahasaya is designed specifically to fight.

Wow that was very informative, you seem like you know a lot abt this stuff, you could add a lot of value here. 

You say that energising the body and chakras strengthens the ego, does that mean kundalini is only good for spiritual experiences and not actual transcendence? ?

I still remember how energetic kriya used to make me feel, and I loved it! I could tap into the chakras from the spine through mental pranayam, but I dont think it had a calming effect, more like an activation effect. 

[MountainCactus]

2 hours ago, Pernani said:

Wow that was very informative, you seem like you know a lot abt this stuff, you could add a lot of value here. 

You say that energising the body and chakras strengthens the ego, does that mean kundalini is only good for spiritual experiences and not actual transcendence? ?

I still remember how energetic kriya used to make me feel, and I loved it! I could tap into the chakras from the spine through mental pranayam, but I dont think it had a calming effect, more like an activation effect. 

Oh boy, I could write a novel just on this alone, haha. Kundalini awakening is merely a step on the path, not the endpoint in and of itself. Kundalini also doesn't have to be an uncomfortable experience. Lahiri Baba specifically said that Kriya practiced properly has NO negative side effects. So all the people on this forum, and other forums, that are practicing Kriya and experiencing negative effects from kundalini are not practicing proper Kriya. Now, this is not surprising since proper Kriya is very difficult to find. Yogananda altered the techniques to be energizing. I'm not sure why he did that, but the fallout is that he became so popular and because of that all of the books and large organizations base their techniques off of Yogananda's altered technique, not the technique originally taught by Lahiri Mahasaya. In the book Kriya Stories which is freely available on the Yoga Niketan website Swami Satyananda Giri back in the mid-1900s said to the author's guru that true Kriya techniques were at risk of extinction, but that there are some small unorganized householder branches that still carry the tradition on. The real techniques are an endangered species these days. Kriya practiced with the proper techniques leads to a kundalini awakening that is slow, controlled, and comfortable. It also is a path of much deeper and more relaxing meditation that has much more carry over into changes for the better in day to day life. Mind you, there are less fireworks along the way, but the fireworks come with the tradeoff of negative symptoms as kundalini energy leaves the subtle body and enters the physical body. This is where all the common negative kundalini effects like headaches, spontaneous movements, insomnia, uncontrollable sexual urges, etc come from. In proper Kriya the energy stays in the subtle body and never enters the physical body. It still finds its way up to the sahasrara so it still promotes kundalini awakening, but it is a very gentle and controlled process not a forced one. This is my experience exactly, I started with the incorrect techniques in the same books that are popular here (and these books not only take Yogananda's energized techniques, but alter them further to add an extra layer or two of energization to them). I had some really bad negative effects, found a teacher in a lineage that has not altered the techniques, was initiated, and ever since I started working with my teacher I have taken off like a spiritual rocket ship and have had absolutely no negative side effects of any kind.

I love Yogananda for his teachings. I think that every Kriyaban here should take the SRF lessons at a minimum for the wealth of information in them. The newly redone SRF lessons are especially good, and worth the small cost for the info alone. I also think that God Talks with Arjuna and Second Coming of Christ are gems and should be on the reading list for every western Kriyaban. But he did alter the Kriya techniques, and added quite a bit of his own creation to them including a large Bhakti (devotional) Yoga,  and Karma Yoga practice, as well as encouragement for renunciation. I'm sure if someone renunciated into his monastic order and followed all of his techniques they could achieve full self-realization. But I'm sure all of us here are householders, and Lahiri's techniques were meant specifically for us. They are more powerful, have less negative effects, and there are less practices which means they are easier to schedule into a busy schedule. He also did not include any Bhakti or Karma Yoga practice as Lahiri Baba focused exclusively on the non-dual side of things. He said that Kriya led to union with the true guru which is the non-dual God; this union is the ultimate Bhakti, the ultimate Karma Yoga, the ultimate Jnana, and the ultimate renunciation. Any external Bhakti, Karma, Jnana, or renunciation paled in comparison to the internal one.

So yes, your past experience is exactly what I would expect. Energizing and activating, not calming. It can be entertaining and fun, but ultimately anytime you strengthen your chakras you are strengthening your bondage to your body, mind, and ego so this does come at a cost. Everything in the dual world has a tradeoff. How can you achieve even a light temporary state of Samadhi in an energized and activated state? It's completely contradictory.

Edited November 6, 2019 by MountainCactus

[MountainCactus]

I was doing some reading through Purana Purusha this morning (the book that contains Lahiri Mahasaya's personal diaries) and something stuck out to me that really helps drive my point in the above post home. Over and over and over again he states that the point of the Kriya technique is to "silence the Prana". So one must ask themselves, are the techniques they are practicing silencing the Prana, or stirring up the Prana? He also specifically says over and over that Kriya has "OM japa in the 6 chakras" so again, one must ask themselves if the techniques they are practicing are chanting OM in the 6 chakras or only 1? These are words that Lahiri Baba wrote himself in his personal diary, and all are able to get the book to see for themselves. Any Kriya that does not check both of the above boxes is not the real Kriya. The differences between the techniques on paper don't look huge, but in practice, at least in my personal experience, they are worlds apart. The real Kriya is much more blissful, much less complex, much more natural, much more gentle handed, leads to deeper meditation, and leads consciousness easily and naturally out of the body. Kriya is such a subtle process that even small changes can make a world of difference. I also think it should be mentioned that the books invent a lot of techniques that are meant to really stir up the Prana, which really will work against true Kriya practice. Kriya is not about developing "supreme fire", it's about putting the fire out. Kriya is about moving beyond all the elements; beyond experience; beyond everything and anything that is dualistic in nature.

I don't know why, but I feel like God has placed it heavily on my heart to share these things here. I'm sure there's at least someone out there that this will resonate with. I'm not at liberty to share the techniques I was taught, nor am I a teacher myself, but I am here and willing to help anyone in any way that I am able.

Edited November 7, 2019 by MountainCactus

[SriBhagwanYogi]

Who else practices Kriya Yoga without Kundalini stuff, visualisations etc and if you do is it enough to be effective? 

[Pernani]

On 06/11/2019 at 10:40 PM, MountainCactus said:

Oh boy, I could write a novel just on this alone, haha. Kundalini awakening is merely a step on the path, not the endpoint in and of itself. Kundalini also doesn't have to be an uncomfortable experience. Lahiri Baba specifically said that Kriya practiced properly has NO negative side effects. So all the people on this forum, and other forums, that are practicing Kriya and experiencing negative effects from kundalini are not practicing proper Kriya. Now, this is not surprising since proper Kriya is very difficult to find. Yogananda altered the techniques to be energizing. I'm not sure why he did that, but the fallout is that he became so popular and because of that all of the books and large organizations base their techniques off of Yogananda's altered technique, not the technique originally taught by Lahiri Mahasaya. In the book Kriya Stories which is freely available on the Yoga Niketan website Swami Satyananda Giri back in the mid-1900s said to the author's guru that true Kriya techniques were at risk of extinction, but that there are some small unorganized householder branches that still carry the tradition on. The real techniques are an endangered species these days. Kriya practiced with the proper techniques leads to a kundalini awakening that is slow, controlled, and comfortable. It also is a path of much deeper and more relaxing meditation that has much more carry over into changes for the better in day to day life. Mind you, there are less fireworks along the way, but the fireworks come with the tradeoff of negative symptoms as kundalini energy leaves the subtle body and enters the physical body. This is where all the common negative kundalini effects like headaches, spontaneous movements, insomnia, uncontrollable sexual urges, etc come from. In proper Kriya the energy stays in the subtle body and never enters the physical body. It still finds its way up to the sahasrara so it still promotes kundalini awakening, but it is a very gentle and controlled process not a forced one. This is my experience exactly, I started with the incorrect techniques in the same books that are popular here (and these books not only take Yogananda's energized techniques, but alter them further to add an extra layer or two of energization to them). I had some really bad negative effects, found a teacher in a lineage that has not altered the techniques, was initiated, and ever since I started working with my teacher I have taken off like a spiritual rocket ship and have had absolutely no negative side effects of any kind.

I love Yogananda for his teachings. I think that every Kriyaban here should take the SRF lessons at a minimum for the wealth of information in them. The newly redone SRF lessons are especially good, and worth the small cost for the info alone. I also think that God Talks with Arjuna and Second Coming of Christ are gems and should be on the reading list for every western Kriyaban. But he did alter the Kriya techniques, and added quite a bit of his own creation to them including a large Bhakti (devotional) Yoga,  and Karma Yoga practice, as well as encouragement for renunciation. I'm sure if someone renunciated into his monastic order and followed all of his techniques they could achieve full self-realization. But I'm sure all of us here are householders, and Lahiri's techniques were meant specifically for us. They are more powerful, have less negative effects, and there are less practices which means they are easier to schedule into a busy schedule. He also did not include any Bhakti or Karma Yoga practice as Lahiri Baba focused exclusively on the non-dual side of things. He said that Kriya led to union with the true guru which is the non-dual God; this union is the ultimate Bhakti, the ultimate Karma Yoga, the ultimate Jnana, and the ultimate renunciation. Any external Bhakti, Karma, Jnana, or renunciation paled in comparison to the internal one.

So yes, your past experience is exactly what I would expect. Energizing and activating, not calming. It can be entertaining and fun, but ultimately anytime you strengthen your chakras you are strengthening your bondage to your body, mind, and ego so this does come at a cost. Everything in the dual world has a tradeoff. How can you achieve even a light temporary state of Samadhi in an energized and activated state? It's completely contradictory.

For real i can relate to that last bit for a bit, even though i love yoga, ever since i started doing it it's like I've been healthier and more energized, but not as aware or insightful as when I was solely doing 1hr meditation daily. Almost feels like a step back which is confusing, bec I can still feel benefits from yoga: the physical and emotional body heals up, and I get calm during the sessions but not a transcendental kind of calm, as in the calm is still very much centered and grounded in the body... Whereas in meditation I could I used to be able to merge with naked awareness at times and got better and better at it. 

So I'm kinda confused how to go on abt it now lol, been alternating between meditation and yoga on a day to day basis, just to get that connection with awareness back. 

And u say that's because the techniques we're following from the books are not the original? How's that? I mean idk abt the other authors but ennio nimis dedicated his life to finding this original kriya and sharing it. So it may be thats it's because we're not practicing the techniques like we should since we're still new to all of this. And I must agree with ennio's views on secrecy, it just does more harm than good, if you got sth that will benefit people why keep it to yourself? 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pernani

[kerk]

2 hours ago, Pernani said:

ennio nimis dedicated his life to finding this original kriya and sharing it

Ennio's files contain lots and lots of different kriya techniques from different sources. So does Stevens' book. And Kriya sources typically say theirs is the original, including those who claim to be chosen by Babaji himself (who may not be a physical human alive today).

Gamana teaches some techniques that even he concedes are not part of traditional Kriya and should not be performed without extensive Kriya experience.

This is why personal instruction by credible sources whose provenance checks out is best in my opinion.

2 hours ago, Pernani said:

And I must agree with ennio's views on secrecy, it just does more harm than good, if you got sth that will benefit people why keep it to yourself? 

Yogiraj Lahiri insisted on secrecy and direct in-person instruction to address each initiate's questions and issues.

When everybody and his dog teaches techniques, they are tempted to include their own spins on it and to ignore or even hide what they were originally taught and by whom. This has happened a lot in Kriya.

In contrast, for example if you get initiation into Transcendental Meditation (TM), every teacher teaches it the same way, with the same exact verbiage. TM's founder insisted on complete standardization so that the system wouldn't be corrupted and branch out into a million different versions. And he crated an organization that maintains that.

Yogiraj was suspicious of organizations and did not want any cults, groups or temples and power struggles around Kriya. He felt that all that outer stuff would become distractions from the main point, which is practicing the meditation. He was an individualist and wanted Kriya taught only by himself or, since he was only one person with limited hours in the day, through an informal network of disciples. So he sent people to Panchanon or to Priyanath and others he had ordained; and eventually his sons also.

But because he did not start one organization and one authority, various "kriyas" are all over the place. (Lahiri and Panchanon did start the Aryya Mission Institution but that was only for the purpose of publishing Lahiri's books.)

Yogananda lectured to thousands of people when he came to America. It's easy to see that when thousands want to learn Kriya, some sort of organization is probably necessary.

While he did deputize several close students to teach Kriya, and they eventually started their own organizations (such as CSA, Ananda and others), Yogananda's legacy is mainly in one large organization which keeps control of the techniques through written agreements, monastic order and secret ceremony. A somewhat similar thing happened with Hariharananda and his large organization.

Edited November 8, 2019 by kerk

[MountainCactus]

4 hours ago, Pernani said:

And u say that's because the techniques we're following from the books are not the original? How's that? I mean idk abt the other authors but ennio nimis dedicated his life to finding this original kriya and sharing it. So it may be thats it's because we're not practicing the techniques like we should since we're still new to all of this. And I must agree with ennio's views on secrecy, it just does more harm than good, if you got sth that will benefit people why keep it to yourself? 

Ennio's techniques are not what I was taught. None of the books are. They all add extra things into Kriya to energize the practice. Though I will say that at least for first Kriya Ennio's description is closer than Stephens or Gamana's, matter of fact I only have one gripe with Ennio's first Kriya (so for anyone that refuses to take on a guru I would recommend Ennio's first Kriya as the lesser evil) but Ennio's Higher Kriyas are still very far away; I've yet to see a book or website get close on the Higher Kriyas. Also, Kriya is a very subtle process. Just a description alone is not enough to truly get it. Every technique I've learned from my teacher I've had to go back and forth with him multiple times with questions or troubleshooting small issues. Even a small unintentional misinterpretation can have huge repercussions in Kriya. It is also worth mentioning that all the authors came from the Yogananda lineage, and they all adopt most, if not all, of Yogananda's alterations in their books. As I mentioned above, you can read the Kriya Stories book which tells a story of Satyananda Giri himself back in the mid 1900's on his death bed starting that the true practices were at risk of extinction, but that there will always be some small householder lineages away from the spotlight and organizations that stay true to the teachings. This is still true today. As far as I'm aware the Panchanon Bhattacharya lineage is the main lineage that has maintained purity of techniques; this branch prioritizes purity and non-alteration of technique above all. There are a bunch of branches of this lineage that exist in the U.S. and India that came from Maheshwari Prasad Dubey's hard work to try to save the original techniques from extinction. There are some branches in India through Lahiri's family that I hear still pass on the unaltered techniques. I also suspect from reading their books that the Yoga Niketan guys may have the proper techniques as well, though I do not know exactly what they teach so I cannot confirm. There are also some off the map type guru's that shun the public audience altogether that still pass on the unaltered techniques. However, none of the major organizations, books, or "Big Baba" popular public guru's that I am aware of pass on the pure, unaltered techniques. 

There are some small alterations that the Yogiraj taught to different people, but there are 2 specific things that Yogananda added to First Kriya that Lahiri Baba did not teach, that have been adopted by pretty much all the organizations, "Big Baba's", and authors. The real First Kriya technique is actually much simpler and much less complex than what you guys have learned from the books. It is also much less gross, less physical, and less forced. The First Kriya is supposed to be a very subtle, simple and gentle process. If you read both the Garland of Letters and Purana Purusha and hear the descriptions that Lahiri Baba makes about the practices, it's very easy to see that the practices in the books do not match what he describes. I can say that the techniques I was taught do exactly conform with everything he has said in both those books. This is how I personally verified that the techniques I was taught were legit, I didn't take it on blind trust. You all should not take my words on blind trust either, you really should read the books and come to your own conclusions, imo.

I'm not keeping anything to myself. I believe that the one on one guru/disciple relationship is a major irreplaceable part of Kriya. Anyone is able to find a teacher to follow this path, nobody is keeping anything from anybody. Kriya is a path for all, but Kriya is a path for following a teacher. It is worth mentioning that the gripes that Ennio and Stephens have are directed towards organizations not a one on one guru/disciple relationship. Like @kerk mentioned, organizations are not the path that Lahiri Baba supported. He believed in a line of unorganized householders teaching one on one in person. In my opinion, if someone is really serious about Kriya, why would they not want to go through the proper channels in the tradition passed down by its founder? Why would someone want to go through a back road and read from a book written by someone who is not only not an authorized teacher, but might not even be fully self-realized? The true Kriya path is there for anyone that is truly serious about it. And the books are there for anyone that just wants to take a tourist trip and get some experience. The books can also serve as a gateway drug so to speak. I mean, without the books I wouldn't have found my way to the path I'm on now. So they are not all bad. But I do think from reading this thread that there are a lot of people here that are serious about Kriya that are very lost and confused and not getting the benefit from their practice that they expect, just like I once was, and it's to them that I'm speaking and trying to encourage to abandon the books and seek a one on one guru. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[MountainCactus]

4 hours ago, Pernani said:

For real i can relate to that last bit for a bit, even though i love yoga, ever since i started doing it it's like I've been healthier and more energized, but not as aware or insightful as when I was solely doing 1hr meditation daily. Almost feels like a step back which is confusing, bec I can still feel benefits from yoga: the physical and emotional body heals up, and I get calm during the sessions but not a transcendental kind of calm, as in the calm is still very much centered and grounded in the body... Whereas in meditation I could I used to be able to merge with naked awareness at times and got better and better at it. 

So I'm kinda confused how to go on abt it now lol, been alternating between meditation and yoga on a day to day basis, just to get that connection with awareness back. 

This is not surprising coming from what is taught in the books. Like I mentioned, the books are energizing, where as proper Kriya is calming. Proper Kriya leads to incredibly deep meditations. Proper Kriya guides consciousness out of the body. The techniques taught in the books are indeed "very much centered and grounded in the body". I've said quite a few times that by energizing the chakras, you are strengthening your ties to the body and the world. This is a fundamental aspect of the chakras that is true in all cases. Energizing the chakras was originally an occult practice to try to achieve Siddhi's (supernatural powers). This is not the path to self-realization, it's a detour. Lahiri's techniques lead to the "stillness of Prana" as quoted from Lahiri Baba himself. With the proper techniques the state of paravastha is very easy and natural to attain. This is where you get that "transcendental kind of calm" through attaining full Pratyahara, and then easily drifting into Dharana, Dhyana, and finally Samadhi. With proper Kriya you don't need to practice meditation separately, because deep meditation is a natural byproduct of the practice. After proper Kriya I don't want to get up. I want to sit there and just easily let myself blissfully melt away into the non-dual. It's not unusual for a 2-3 hour long Kriya session to feel like 15 minutes...

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Hi and welcome to the forums. Glad to have you onboard and to that you share your accumilated knowledge. You make very interesting points and I can relate to what you write about energizing the chakras. I did Gamana's "KP" where you chant in the spiritual eye only. Though the technique was extremely potent for me and it helped me feel the central channel, it was also often uncomfortable in the sense that it felt like too much energy and alot of anxiety boiled up. I have taken a break from Kriya practices since (or whatever you wanna call what I did) and taken up other energy practices that feels way more soothing, balanced and stronger. If I will return to kriya I will make sure to do the KP that follows the chakras in the body, nadi sodhana, om japa in the chakras and navi kriya (though not in that order obviously) 

My questions for you are:

When you say that you don't want to energize your chakras or calm the prana, can you be more specific? When you do Om Japa and KP, what makes the difference of calming vs energizing them when placing the OM's?

Why would energizing the chakras create more ego? For me I can penetrate more deeply inwards when my body is energized. And if you develop siddhis it doesn't mean you have to flaunt them or feel special, that is the seduction and trick you have to pass, but a sincere seeker will want to find truth and who/what you truly are.

I have always wondered about Lahiri's statement that not placing OM's is tamasic. If I get this right, if you do Pranayamas without placing OM's, move the the prana up and down, this would not be benificial, but actually destructive. Can you give an explanation to why this would be the case?

Edited November 8, 2019 by Esoteric
Added question

[MountainCactus]

Excellent questions @Esoteric!

1 hour ago, Esoteric said:

When you say that you don't want to energize your chakras or calm the prana, can you be more specific? When you do Om Japa and KP, what makes the difference of calming vs energizing them when placing the OM's?

Om Japa itself is calming to the chakras. Om Japa is not energizing. It's the other things added to the practice that create it energizing. Specifically, the attempt to control and force energy through the channel. I cannot be too specific or risk giving away the techniques, but I do think that most people should be able to figure out what I mean here without me coming out and saying it. Gamana's, or should I say Mukerjee's, technique of chanting just at the Ajna shouldn't be overly stimulative, but it can create some imbalance and does not fight the battle of Kurukshetra in the important lower centers. Also, some of the added techniques Gamana invented are strong kundalini stimulators that would work against you instead of for you in silencing the prana.

1 hour ago, Esoteric said:

Why would energizing the chakras create more ego? For me I can penetrate more deeply inwards when my body is energized. And if you develop siddhis it doesn't mean you have to flaunt them or feel special, that is the seduction and trick you have to pass, but a sincere seeker will want to find truth and who/what you truly are.

The chakras are where your limbic brain projects into the body. By energizing the chakras you are energizing this connection to the body. An example of this is that a common side effect of Kundalini Yoga is increased sexual urges. This is obviously binding you to the body, through an energized second chakra. Each chakra has it's own unique side effects. The chakras are a part of the dual world, they are dual in nature, and isn't the true goal to reach non-duality? The real goal of Kriya is for the energy and projections to silence in the chakras, as this promotes freedom from the body, world, mind, and duality. It is only from this freed state that a yogi can fully enter a state of Samadhi. In energizing the chakras you are moving away not towards Samadhi. Samadhi is the goal of Kriya, so why would anyone practice something that would be a roadblock to that end?

1 hour ago, Esoteric said:

I have always wondered about Lahiri's statement that not placing OM's is tamasic. If I get this right, if you do Pranayamas without placing OM's, move the the prana up and down, this would not be benificial, but actually destructive. Can you give an explanation to why this would be the case?

See my answer to the second question. Anything that is stimulative to the energy system and/or the chakras is a roadblock to Samadhi. It is moving towards the body, not towards the non-dual. The goal of Kriya is not to have crazy experiences. It's a proven path for a householder to follow to union with the non-dual.

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[MountainCactus]

Actually @Esoteric I'm going to take a small step back here as I think by backing up a little bit I can paint a bit more context that will help you and everyone else connect the dots. The ultimate goal of Kriya, as I mentioned, is to unite your consciousness permanently with the non-dual. Kriya is an Advaita Vedanta technique at its core. Self-Inquiry is easy to get some initial experience, but it's hard to make that experience permanent. Kriya is an easy and natural way to make that non-dual state permanent into what is called a state of Nirvikalpa Samadhi. In this way I see both Kriya and Self-Inquiry as natural complimentary practices, but that's a tangent for another day.

Advaita Vedanta teaches that to reach Nirvikalpa Samadhi you have to go through all 3 bodies, that are comprised of 5 total sheaths (or the 5 Koshas if you want to research more into this).

1. The physical body 
   1. Annamaya Kosha or physical sheath.
2. The subtle body
   1. Pranamaya Kosha or energy sheath.
   2. Manomaya Kosha or the mind sheath.
   3. Vijnanamaya Kosha or the subconscious/intuitive sheath.
3. The causal body
   1. Anandamaya Kosha or the emptiness/bliss sheath.

And finally when you move beyond all of those bodies/sheaths you reach the non-dual state. Each of those sheaths is an illusion, hence the word "Maya" used in each name. Even emptiness/bliss is an illusion. Far too many people reach this point and think they've reached the end, but the truth is there is still another layer below that. If one can observe emptiness, there is obviously still something lower and more subtle than emptiness that is observing it.

So what are the chakras and how do they fit into this model? Like I mentioned above, the chakras are where the limbic brain projects into the physical body. So what sheath is the limbic brain in? It is in the Vijnanamaya Kosha. It leverages the Pranamaya Kosha to manifest the physical body. In other words, the chakras are where the subtle body becomes the physical body. So by energizing these connection points, you are strengthening the bond between the body and the subtle body. This is the opposite of what we want. The goal of the first Kriya is to do the Battle of Kurukshetra that Krishna described in the Bhagavad Gita. For those not familiar with the Gita I highly recommend Yogananda's "God Talks With Arjuna" for a very western friendly and Kriya specific version. His teachings in that book came from Sriyukteswar's writings, which were edited and approved by Lahiri. So through Kriya, we perform the battle of Kurukshetra and go beyond the body and the consciousness settles into the subtle body. Then from there, through Paravastha, Yoni Mundra, and the higher Kriyas we completely win this battle, and we are able to release from the subtle body into the Kutastha which is the causal body. It is at this point where you finally are at a full state of Pratyahara. Then through continued practice, and much time spent in the Paravastha state, you can go from Dharana, to Dhyana, and finally Samadhi where you ultimately merge your consciousness with the non-dual. Then, by reaching Samadhi over and over and over again, you slowly start bringing it with you outside meditation until Samadhi is a permanent state. This is the goal of Kriya; Nirvikalpa Samadhi. To get here, one must sever the link between the chakras and the body. This is the first major battle that needs to be fought. By strengthening these bonds, you prevent yourself from going any further in the process I described.

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactus Wow. This is very interesting stuff and I have got some researching to do. I will buy Yogananda's book on the Gita.

Though speaking of Yogananda. For me personally, he is one of the greatest masters we've had. Yet he seemed to have no problem with energization practices. On the contrary. He reached so far that he willingly left the body. So what is your view on that? It is paradoxical to what wrote, is it not?

Also if you look at Vajrayana and Tummo practice, it focuses on building up so much energy that it "melts" the upper centres into the belly which creates more and more bliss. Non-dual bliss as they call it. An extremely energetic technique that obviously has created a lot of masters if you look at the Tibetan tradition. So isn't it more fair to say that it depends on the individual more than anything? For some people, like Yogananda, an increase in energy was to their benefit. Whereas for other people it will cause suffering and there is not enough courage to resist the temptations it creates.

Also, I would be interested in hearing your opinion about our center. You write that the limbic brain projects out the chakras in the body. And the term spiritual heart gets used alot, where our home and true seed is. Gamana writes about this too. But the spiritual heart still gets projected out to the heart from the brain. Or "brain". So is it fair to say that our true core and center is in the brain and this is where the eyeball (as Leo put it) projects out all of creation? And that it only feels like it's in the spiritual heart?

 

[Pernani]

@MountainCactus I just wanna thank you and @kerk for creating so much value on this forum.

I didn't read all of the posts yet, I'm waiting to give em my full focus cause I got so many questions lol. But for now just one question, what can one do if one doesn't have access to a guru? I mean I'm still suspicious that the lack of progress (compared to when I used to meditate regularly) is due to my inexperience and that I still haven't nailed down the techniques correctly, but if what you're saying is true @MountainCactus - and I'd like for the other forum members to the discuss their progress doing the techniques from the books and whether that contradicts with my experience and what you said - then what can one do about it? To get the real benefits of transcending the ego and realising samadhi from kriya? 

[MountainCactus]

1 hour ago, Pernani said:

@MountainCactus I just wanna thank you and @kerk for creating so much value on this forum.

I didn't read all of the posts yet, I'm waiting to give em my full focus cause I got so many questions lol. But for now just one question, what can one do if one doesn't have access to a guru? I mean I'm still suspicious that the lack of progress (compared to when I used to meditate regularly) is due to my inexperience and that I still haven't nailed down the techniques correctly, but if what you're saying is true @MountainCactus - and I'd like for the other forum members to the discuss their progress doing the techniques from the books and whether that contradicts with my experience and what you said - then what can one do about it? To get the real benefits of transcending the ego and realising samadhi from kriya? 

Well I think everyone can have access to a guru. But one should not be impatient and should wait to find the right guru. Most spiritual mistakes are born out of impatience. As Christ said, judge the tree by the quality of its fruit. So you must interact with your guru a bit, see and interact with some of his students, and make sure he/she is a right fit for you. Be careful of the "Big Baba's" that care more about your money than your soul. So for those without a guru this is my recommendation:

• Take the SRF Lessons. This is done by mail, and anyone can do this. It's also fairly cheap.
  • Practice the Hong-Sau and AUM techniques daily. When doing Hong-Sau practice breathing like describe in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEc6RLixpVs. These two techniques will teach you two of the most important things. First, how to properly breath in Kriya through practicing Hong-Sau w/ Clinical Mindfulness. Second, it will teach you to become absorbed in AUM. The astral sounds are a very important part of Kriya, so learning to hear them and become absorbed in them early on will greatly help your Paravastha, as it's in Paravastha where the magic really happens.
  • The energization exercises you can take them or leave them. You can also substitute in any Hatha Yoga routine in their place if you so choose.

This is really all a beginner needs. When I decided I wanted to get initiated I stopped practicing all the techniques in the book and went back to these techniques until I was initiated. I reasoned that the guru's would not want me to practice their techniques without initiation so once I had decided I wanted to commit to their path that it was best to wait and go through the proper channels. Hong-Sau and AUM have the ability to take you all the way to Samadhi if you practice them with enough dedication, time, and consistency.

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[MountainCactus]

3 hours ago, Esoteric said:

@MountainCactus Wow. This is very interesting stuff and I have got some researching to do. I will buy Yogananda's book on the Gita.

Though speaking of Yogananda. For me personally, he is one of the greatest masters we've had. Yet he seemed to have no problem with energization practices. On the contrary. He reached so far that he willingly left the body. So what is your view on that? It is paradoxical to what wrote, is it not?

Also if you look at Vajrayana and Tummo practice, it focuses on building up so much energy that it "melts" the upper centres into the belly which creates more and more bliss. Non-dual bliss as they call it. An extremely energetic technique that obviously has created a lot of masters if you look at the Tibetan tradition. So isn't it more fair to say that it depends on the individual more than anything? For some people, like Yogananda, an increase in energy was to their benefit. Whereas for other people it will cause suffering and there is not enough courage to resist the temptations it creates.

Also, I would be interested in hearing your opinion about our center. You write that the limbic brain projects out the chakras in the body. And the term spiritual heart gets used alot, where our home and true seed is. Gamana writes about this too. But the spiritual heart still gets projected out to the heart from the brain. Or "brain". So is it fair to say that our true core and center is in the brain and this is where the eyeball (as Leo put it) projects out all of creation? And that it only feels like it's in the spiritual heart?

 

Haha, yes the hours upon hours of research is a fun journey. You will learn a lot if you go through all the different books I've recommended.

Yes I believe Yogananda was a great master. I love Yogananda, I owe him a debt of gratitude. Yoga, and Kriya Yoga specifically, may never have gotten a foothold in the West if not for him. I also love his general teachings. Like I said the SRF lessons and his books on the Gita and Bible are wonderful. I think he exaggerated some in Autobiography, and I wish he never would have changed the Kriya techniques. However, one does have to look at the context of his entire system to pass judgment. He taught an "energized" form of Kriya, but he strictly limited the number of Kriyas each student could do daily, and made them get permission from a monastic to increase. He started people off at 14, and it was not easy to get permission to add more. For context, my teacher has placed no limits on me for first Kriya, he has only limited me on the number of reps for the higher Kriyas. I can practice first Kriya all day long if I want with no negative effects, because it's not the energized version. Yogananda also added Hong-Sau and AUM into his system which are more calming techniques which do add some balance to the energized Kriya. He also encouraged renunciation, so optimally if one wants to truly follow Yogananda's path they would join his monastic order where they would not only have easy access to advanced teachers, but live with them on a day to day basis. He also added a strong devotional and karma yoga aspect, which I think helps balance and ground some of the potential negative effects of the energized version of Kriya out. In his version of the second Kriya he also did incorporate OM Japa back into the technique, though he did also leave in the parts he added to the first Kriya as well. So, for someone that was devoted to Yogananda and wanted to join his monastic order and follow all his techniques, I think they could make it all the way home. I'm not sure why he changed the techniques but I can speculate that it had a lot to do with struggling to find a way to mass teach a very subtle system of yoga, as well as to alter or leave some things out that would be considered offensive to 1920's America. I think (or at least like to believe) that he made most of the changes out of necessary concession, not by choice. Maybe he also felt pressured after making such bold claims like those presented in Autobiography that he needed to juice up the energy of the techniques to sate the American craving for experience? I don't know, all I can do is speculate. But either way, I still think that Lahiri's original techniques are better.

As for the Tibetan tradition and the like, one must remember that most other paths other than Lahiri's original Kriya were meant for monastics; people that would be living and interacting with masters every day; people that did not have families, jobs, or a life that could be impeded by negative side effects; people that had the space and time to work through it. A lot of these schools also have their root in martial arts. For someone that is training for battle, gaining physical power from the chakras, especially that powerful 3rd chakra in the navel, is extremely important for practical reasons. I cannot say whether or not these practices can lead to Samadhi or not as I've never practiced them myself, but there obviously are enlightened beings on these paths. However, I can say that I always like to lean on scripture in spiritual matters. Kriya is the practical application of the Bhagavad Gita. If you read that book you will start to understand. Since I trust the Gita and what Krishna says in it, I can trust Kriya. I'm not as well versed in the Buddhist side of things, though I do think it is obviously a valid path. But, this thread is specific to Kriya, and in Kriya the goal is "stillness of Prana". Lahiri's path is the only meditation path I'm aware of that was meant specifically for householders and asked for no external sacrifice or renunciation of any kind.

As for the question on the spiritual heart, that's a bit more nuanced. Ramana Maharshi said that the heart was the seat of the Self. Lahiri never specifically said anything like that, but he did place a heavy emphasis on the heart in the higher Kriyas. So I kind of have to go off of my own opinion and intuition here to bring those two facts into one, so take it as that. My thinking is that the heart is one of our greatest bonds to the world. Love is the most powerful emotion we have. Love is the only emotion that every human being would voluntarily give their life for. Have you ever seen the Avatar: The Last Air Bender episode where he is unlocking his chakras with his guru? When it came time to the crown the guru told him that he had to let everything go, but Aang refused because of his love for Kitara. This is something that is common in the path of enlightenment. Our love for our families, friends, and the world in general is our biggest road block to true union with the "Self". But this is something we have to move beyond as well. Like I mentioned above, the causal body is the Kutastha, which is "the eyeball" as you termed it (I'm not super familiar with Leo's teachings, I'm mainly just here for the Kriya discussion, lol). I believe that the non-dual Atman takes causal form in the Kutastha, and that through the Kutastha and some part in the brain (right brain? right hippocampus? Ajna? Crown? Pineal gland? I'm not exactly sure, but these are the common ideas I've heard) the causal body is bound to the subtle body just like the subtle body takes physical form in the chakras. I hope that makes sense, lol!

Edited November 8, 2019 by MountainCactus

[MountainCactus]

42 minutes ago, MountainCactus said:

(right brain? right hippocampus? Ajna? Crown? Pineal gland? I'm not exactly sure, but these are the common ideas I've heard)

Ah the synchronicity, just saw that this was posted today on YouTube for any that want to dig deeper down that rabbit hole quoted above: 

 

[Esoteric]

@MountainCactusThanks for your answers and stuff to look into. I've gotten a lot of new perspectives and stuff to reflect on. I never really put much attention on that Lahiri's Kriya was for householders specifically, even though I always knew it. It does make sense now.

Never seen or heard of Avatar: The Last Airbender but it looks interesting, might give an episode a go And I will watch that video you posted, I like that guy from what I've seen.