If consciousness is Infinite why it is not aware of subconscious mind?

[Nahm]

@egoless Thanks!  I’m suggesting what they share is nonexistence, that consciousness work sheds the programming, the belief in past and future, the actuality of now/god/absolute/everything/nothing/source/love/the infinite, limitless one - you. ?

[egoless]

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@egoless Thanks!  I’m suggesting what they share is nonexistence, that consciousness work sheds the programming, the belief in past and future, the actuality of now/god/absolute/everything/nothing/source/love/the infinite, limitless one - you. ?

I don’t know if you have seen my last post when I was very concerned. I had very hard times lately with consciousness work and all these stuff. I advanced in it very quickly and I was not ready. It hit me back really hard. The problem was I did not settle my material life issues before stepping to that journey. I was very hardcore and It made me very depressed and lonely lately. Plus I had huge realization that nobody has the Truth. It is impossible. It is absolutely relative. You are no more right than person who thinks is body because it’s true for him... there is not such thing as absolute Truth because there is no such person as absolute person see?   

Edited March 22, 2018 by egoless

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

This is very good finding you stumbled upon. This is exactly how I mean “ego” atm. ego is nothing more than what science calls subconscious mind. It controls you unconsciously. But you always have a choice to become conscious in the present moment and change it. @Leo Gura this is what I found. Clearly programming your subconscious works. Subconscious is the ego... Collective past and memory is the ego. Your true self is always in present being.

Growth is not necessarily enjoyable when you’re going through it.  I have plenty of scars to prove that myself.  Having your Ego ripped out of you is not necessarily a pleasant experience.  But you gotta have faith that the process will benefit your life long-term.  And it does!  After pursuing Enlightenment very heavily for a couple of years now, I can say it does pay off.  It’s an investment in your happiness.  It’s the best investment you can make in life.  I can honestly say that I need almost nothing to be happy now.  Could I say that 5 years ago?  Absolutely not.  I can be perfectly happy now just BE-ing.  My attachment to life is much less neurotic now.  

Edited March 22, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[egoless]

14 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Growth is not necessarily enjoyable when you’re going through it.  I have plenty of scars to prove that myself.  Having your Ego ripped out of you is not necessarily a pleasant experience.  But you gotta have faith that the process will benefit your life long-term.  And it does!  After pursuing Enlightenment very heavily for a couple of years now, I can say it does pay off.  It’s an investment in your happiness.  It’s the best investment you can make in life.  I can honestly say that I need almost nothing to be happy now.  Could I say that 5 years ago?  Absolutely not.  I can be perfectly happy now just BE-ing.  My attachment to life is much less neurotic now.  

I don't know if you are happy or you make yourself believe it subconsciously and deluded. However, you don't know whether there are other way to be happy or not. Have you tried them all? Or you just believe this is the only way? Have you ever truly loved a woman? Do you have children? Maybe that's what happiness is? How do you know if you did not try? I'm just saying generally here...

I am trying to tell you guys to not get stuck in this "Truth" paradigm... 

Edited March 22, 2018 by egoless

[Paulus Amadeus]

@egoless I really like your skepticism and I totally agree with that most people on this forum are just repeating believes when it comes to the enlightenment stuff. If you want to read a really good book about how consciousness and reality are related read: Why materialism is baloney, from Bernardo kalstrup. Really genius book explaining why it makes sense for consciousness to be the foundation of everything. It also goes into why we are not experiencing everything all the time. made all this spiritual stuff a lot more tangable for the rational part of my psyche. It's an epic book! Really really recomend it

[Faceless]

The moment you bring up the question am I happy, is the very same moment you are presented with its opposite of am I not happy. 

To seek happiness creates its opposite of unhappiness. 

If we are seeking happiness or we want to maintain an experience of happiness there will inevitably be conflict ‘suffering’ because the moment we create that desire for permanence of haplinesss we also creating  the problem of getting caught in the mechanical movement of pleasure. ‘To recreate that experience’ the compulsion to recreate any experience again and again or to  extend it to a ‘higher level’ is always moving and striving and sets the projected finish line further and further away. One seeks and seeks without ending. 

When we ask for pleasure we are also asking for suffering. They are the same. One can not exsist without the other.

The way I see it is Don’t ask for happiness and then you won’t get all the other implications that are accompanied with it. 

Besides true joy is not somthing that can be invited. Once it’s invited it becomes a crutch. 

For me Happy or Not is besides the point. There may be times of happiness and there may be times of not so happy. The mommnet you demand is the momment you become slave to the mechanical nature of thought. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Faceless

[egoless]

13 minutes ago, Paulus Amadeus said:

@egoless I really like your skepticism and I totally agree with that most people on this forum are just repeating believes when it comes to the enlightenment stuff. If you want to read a really good book about how consciousness and reality are related read: Why materialism is baloney, from Bernardo kalstrup. Really genius book explaining why it makes sense for consciousness to be the foundation of everything. It also goes into why we are not experiencing everything all the time. made all this spiritual stuff a lot more tangable for the rational part of my psyche. It's an epic book! Really really recomend it

I know it. But it does not make the ultimate Truth... Whatever you believe in becomes the true for you. That's the foundation. Fundamental truth is that there is infinite freedom of creation. What you create out of it is totally up to you. It does not fuckin matter. That's what I'm saying. It does not matter if you are materialist scientist or Leo believing whatever he believes in. I just got one thing that we should not teach others no matter how sure we are in the Truth. @Leo Gura this is where I disagree lately with where the actualized.org is going. I really appreciate your informative videos and you know it. And I respect you and your intelligence. But lately you are trying to push on your beliefs way too hard. Like in the videos "Life is a dream" or "comprehending the magnitude of reality". This is my honest opinion that these kind of videos are not really helpful. You are trying to preach what is True for you without other people experiencing it themselves. You know that I am straightforward guy and honest. That's why I am telling you. And we are all here kind of friends and want to help each other improve. 

Unfortunately I observe how this path also becomes the religion for many. 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by egoless

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, egoless said:

You are trying to preach what is True for you without other people experiencing it themselves

This is actually a great thing to bring to light.

[Faceless]

15 minutes ago, egoless said:

And we are all here kind of friends and want to help each other improve. 

 

But we must realize the desire to ‘improve’ ‘ourselves’ as far as liberation from self is the reason it will not happen. 

Actully knowone can help you with this. There might be one who can point but the majority is up to you?

Edited March 22, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

I understand what you said on your post egoless. What your saying is necessary to bring up.?

[Nahm]

@egoless Growth can be difficult, the life integration is completely ignored by most, no reason to conflate though.

[Pernani]

5 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The subconscious mind is a model about reality.  It’s thought ‘about’ reality.  Sometimes it helps to frame explanations in terms of mind, but we need to keep in mind that when we use these kinds of models we are speaking metaphorically.  What reality is is not encapsulated by our labels and concepts.  What our labels and concepts do is spin a tale ‘about’ reality.  And that’s fine!  I’m not knocking that — but we just gotta see what we’re doing so we don’t mistake the menu for the meal.  The menu ain’t the meal right?  It’s a model ‘about’ the meal.  The menu doesn’t capture the meal.  Put the menu in your mouth and you’ll quickly find that out!  We don’t notice this so easily with thoughts ‘about’ reality versus reality itself, but it works entirety the same!  There is no mind in reality.  That’s mistaking the map for the territory.  It’s convenient to talk that way — but it’s metaphorical.  Language operates metaphorically.  We don’t see the true depth of this.  This is not you, this is everybody!  We are programmed to take metaphors literally by default.  That’s how conceptual-truth works.  But it causes a lot of confusion too.  Reality and conceptions of reality are two different things.  It’s not always so easy to keep them separate, but you can!  Through awareness you can.  My ability to do this has skyrocketed over the past year.  It might be the number one key to my growth — noticing the difference between reality and thought ‘about’ reality.   It almost sounds trivial, but it’s the key to Awakening.  What you’re gonna find is that all your beliefs ‘about’ reality have the same relationship to reality as a menu does to a meal.  Most people can understand this conceptually and agree with me — but do they live it!  Do they really grok the ramifications of it?  Not really, right?  It stays conceptual and superficial for them.  Really, the guru’s job is just to prod people to become much less superficial about these issues. These issues are not just conceptual!  A mature appreciation of these issues will shift your furniture around regarding what you think existence is — the fantasy will drop out of reality for ya.

Man that's some wisdom right there, totally relate to that

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Pernani said:

The subconscious mind is a model about reality.  It’s thought ‘about’ reality.  Sometimes it helps to frame explanations in terms of mind, but we need to keep in mind that when we use these kinds of models we are speaking metaphorically.  What reality is is not encapsulated by our labels and concepts.  What our labels and concepts do is spin a tale ‘about’ reality.  And that’s fine!  I’m not knocking that — but we just gotta see what we’re doing so we don’t mistake the menu for the meal.  The menu ain’t the meal right?  It’s a model ‘about’ the meal.  The menu doesn’t capture the meal.  Put the menu in your mouth and you’ll quickly find that out!  We don’t notice this so easily with thoughts ‘about’ reality versus reality itself, but it works entirety the same!  There is no mind in reality.  That’s mistaking the map for the territory.  It’s convenient to talk that way — but it’s metaphorical.  Language operates metaphorically.  We don’t see the true depth of this.  This is not you, this is everybody!  We are programmed to take metaphors literally by default.  That’s how conceptual-truth works.  But it causes a lot of confusion too.  Reality and conceptions of reality are two different things.  It’s not always so easy to keep them separate, but you can!  Through awareness you can.  My ability to do this has skyrocketed over the past year.  It might be the number one key to my growth — noticing the difference between reality and thought ‘about’ reality.   It almost sounds trivial, but it’s the key to Awakening.  What you’re gonna find is that all your beliefs ‘about’ reality have the same relationship to reality as a menu does to a meal.  Most people can understand this conceptually and agree with me — but do they live it!  Do they really grok the ramifications of it?  Not really, right?  It stays conceptual and superficial for them.  Really, the guru’s job is just to prod people to become much less superficial about these issues. These issues are not just conceptual!  A mature appreciation of these issues will shift your furniture around regarding what you think existence is — the fantasy will drop out of reality for ya.

Absolute Truth is only in the absence of thought. This is the reality that @Joseph Maynor is speaking of.

As one who is not free of thought everything that thought thinks about is there reality or reality. 

Root meaning of reality meaning ‘res or things. This may not be the actual original meaning of course. 

Anyway reality implying anything that the mind takes in and reflects about. If reality ‘thought’ were to cease this implies truth which is independent of thought ‘the thinker’ 

Problem as Joseph says is that we see our reality as independent from our thoughts. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

I notice a lot of people like to depend on others for guidance and to me this sets one up for a doing things the hard way and can delay the action of perception from becoming an actuality. But if people are going to seek an authority anyway might as well be one who is attempting help another provoke thought about themselves and the nature of thought/reality. 

??‍♂️

Although it’s also important to state that the dependence on anohter is not absolutely necessary. In fact it can actually be an advantage going it totaly alone. 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

Not only is there no subconsious mind, there is not even a conscious mind.

"Mind" is a conceptual invention.

You have to understand that when we speak of "mind" or "the body" or "the brain" we are talking about a certain conventional level of reality. This entire level will be shown to be unreal, in the end. But it is still a useful way of talking.

For example, atomic thoery tells you there is no such thing as a "dog", there are only atoms. But "dog" is still a useful way of thinking about reality at the ordinary level.

How you choose to carve up the world comes with a corresponding set of powers and limitations. And that is okay. The key is not to get rigidly attached to one set of categories. And not to mistake the categories for reality.

When we say "reprogramming the subconscious mind", we mean a certain thing within a certain context. You cannot take that phrase and start applying it to the context of metaphysics. It was never a metaphysical phrase.

[egoless]

@Leo Gura I perfectly understand what you mean and yes map is not the territory. But you know that NLP works. of course subconscious mind is just a phrase and concept but it definitely points to our real experience is not it? I mean sometimes empowering ourselves with positive beliefs is wise thing to do.  I'll be honest with you once again and tell you that some of your later videos lack positivity. Don't you think the purpose of life is to simply live the fulfilling life? Know Truth if it is knowable only if it helps you to live fulfilling life. But saying life is a dream could be understood in such a negative way by so many people on Youtube. Some of us may be ready to hear such things but you should take into consideration other people who may be watching your videos first time.

Why it seems to me that you are lately trying to push away positivity and lean more towards nihilistic vibe? Is there a reason behind that?

Edited March 22, 2018 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

Know Truth if it is knowable only if it helps you to live fulfilling life.

That's not going to cut it.

"Helps you to live a fulfilling life" is the agenda of the ego, which will be undermined by Truth. So you're gonna have to choose where your loyalties lie.

Quote

But saying life is a dream could be understood in such a negative way by so many people on Youtube.

Why it seems to me that you are lately trying to push away positivity and lean more towards nihilistic vibe? Is there a reason behind that?

Because you (ego-mind) is not really interested in Truth, you are interested in self-preservation. So you interpret what I say negativity.

It's negative and nihilistic because it jeopardizes the ego's agenda.

It's not really negative. It only appears that way to you.

Which is why spirituality cannot go mainstream and must get corrupted. Because hardly anyone wants spirituality. They want the IDEA of spirituality which will be compatible with their egoic lifestyle. But that is not spirituality, that is self-preservation. Hence all spiritual truths get corrupted.

You are asking me to corrupt the truth to suit your ego.

[egoless]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because hardly anyone wants spirituality. They want the IDEA of spirituality which will be compatible with their egoic lifestyle.

But there is nothing negative about it  you know there are no rights and wrongs. Ego is just a concept. What we call Ego is just memory and beliefs. Where do you see problem if we replace the negative beliefs with empowering beliefs while being aware that it is still a belief? I doubt true spirituality comes with DMT states. True spirituality comes in the presence, in the being when you consciously begin to design your character.

What if you are getting too carried away by this Truth and missing the most important point? Are you open to that idea? Because absolute Truth what you are calling might not even exist and that would be even deeper mindfuck for you. You are spreading the word that life is dream and it does not exist to some people who have never even meditated. That could be more harmful than beneficial for them. I am just saying that maybe it's wise to keep those straightforward videos only for advanced people on this path. But again how would you separate them on youtube?  

How do you know that what is Truth for you will be the same for other? And if you are already Enlightened and are aware in your direct experience that there is no other and there is only you - then what's the point of preaching the Truth anyways?

Notice the paradox.

Edited March 23, 2018 by egoless

[Pallero]

On 22.3.2018 at 5:24 AM, egoless said:

I found out that I only should follow my direct experience. And it tells me that I also have subconscious mind which is strange.

Are you sure about that? What is the subconscious mind? Where in your direct experience can you find it?

[Simon Zackrisson]

 

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not going to cut it.

"Helps you to live a fulfilling life" is the agenda of the ego, which will be undermined by Truth. So you're gonna have to choose where your loyalties lie.

Because you (ego-mind) is not really interested in Truth, you are interested in self-preservation. So you interpret what I say negativity.

It's negative and nihilistic because it jeopardizes the ego's agenda.

It's not really negative. It only appears that way to you.

Which is why spirituality cannot go mainstream and must get corrupted. Because hardly anyone wants spirituality. They want the IDEA of spirituality which will be compatible with their egoic lifestyle. But that is not spirituality, that is self-preservation. Hence all spiritual truths get corrupted.

You are asking me to corrupt the truth to suit your ego.

Amusing that you should dictate what spirituality are. 

Sorry man, but this doesn't make me feel any interest in dismantling this so called illusion of ego. And you might say, ok then, go ahead it doesn't matter anyway. Like im just one of the majority that will never give up the ego. Alright, that is very compassionate of your fellow self.

 

I feel there has to be coexistence between the ego and the universal, otherwise just follow this guy vanish proposal and end it all now.. ?