This Site

[cnorhistorian]

I came across Leo like many other posts on the internet while looking for something else.  I am both impressed and unimpressed. There is Leo's paradox.

With due modesty I would say I am extremely self enlightened. I am at peace with myself and the world.  I have defined the purpose of life - for myself. That is all anyone can do. I can't tell anyone else what the purpose of life is - they have to figure it out for themselves. My answers are not and cannot be their answers.

 I do not consider myself a follower of any social group nor do I push their viewpoints or interests. I don't follow the values of consumer society. Money can buy conveniences but convenience cannot be confused with happiness.  

I will jump right in. The human problem is really very simple. It doesn't require long videos or specialized knowledge to understand. 

The basic issue of the human condition is that the human spirit is in desperate need of absolute answers in a reality where there are no final answers. There you have it.

Despite what just about every guru - including maybe Leo - would have you believe. Maybe they will tell you that you have to come to your own conclusion but the best way to get there is their method for which they will charge you money. Of course, they all offer free advice - loss leaders - to get you hooked.

In part, it is marketing. People want to be spoon fed and they want to think that you think you have the final answer. Otherwise your product doesn't sell and you can't support yourself. Even if you are not trying to make money, people still need to know that you think you have the final answers or they won't pay attention.

This diversion just to show I have a sense of perspective. Back to the topic.

This human condition is symbolically described in the Bible story (some would call it myth) of the Garden of Eden.

Animals live seem to live in the moment. They don't need to know the "purpose of Life"

But as soon as you acquire a spirit that sees beyond the moment and requires an understanding of existence, it is condemned to symbolic "hell" or "spiritual death".  Because there are not and never can be absolute or universal answers only relative and personal ones. You have the "hell" of looking for an answer you can never find.

That is why religion and self help sites are such an attraction because they can do all or most of the work for you and can provide all the emotional answers so you can feel secure from the unknown and don't have to face the fear of thinking for yourself and facing the unanswerable questions that entails.  

"Enlightenment" is also very simple. Unless and until you can completely accept that there are no final answers  you cannot find true freedom and enlightenment. 

Although I have "found myself" and understand how the world works, I am a long way from knowing everything. I see this site as one means of furthering my knowledge

[cnorhistorian]

When I said that understanding the human condition was simple, I did not say it was easy.

It is the hardest thing you will ever do.

[Nathalie]

I'm absolutely by you, when you say this :

1 hour ago, cnorhistorian said:

I can't tell anyone else what the purpose of life is - they have to figure it out for themselves. My answers are not and cannot be their answers.

and yes it's maybe hard work but an agreeable one

Concerning this site. I feel like a guest here, in an enjoyable place where I'm sometimes challenged, some times amused or surprised or where I often can learn a lot, here as well as by Leo's vid... And I really thank him for all the work he has done for this. Even so I would never worship him (or any body else), believe something without experience it or buy something I don't want..

[kalter000]

On 04.03.2016 at 2:45 PM, cnorhistorian said:

The basic issue of the human condition is that the human spirit is in desperate need of absolute answers in a reality where there are no final answers.

Yeah, but it basically gave us everything we have right now. It's a source of our expansion, vector for all humanity. Our planet became the most comfortable madhouse ever. Was it worth it? I don't know. Perhaps in the future it would be the cause of our extinction.

On 04.03.2016 at 2:45 PM, cnorhistorian said:

"Enlightenment" is also very simple. Unless and until you can completely accept that there are no final answers  you cannot find true freedom and enlightenment. 

So, to be free one has to loose himself to uncertainty (spontaneity) and chaos, and stop clinging to false models of reality?

Edited March 5, 2016 by kalter000

[cnorhistorian]

Dear kalter000: yes we have to stop clinging to those emotionally comforting and secure false models of reality. It is the simplest and hardest thing you will ever do

[Ajax]

@cnorhistorian It is also important to know that there are lots of wrong answers. This is due to 3 main factors, false assumptions, not knowing the bigger picture and missing important details.  Or to sum it up simply, a deficiency perception and discernment due to a lack of understanding.

Many of these said "guru's" spend a great deal time, effort and money investing in gaining understanding. I for one find it helpful and worth costs to discover their distilled wisdom that would take too much time and money for me to discover for myself. As long as I continually refine my ability to recognize experts who produce their desired results, I know I am on the right track.

My personal rule to live by, " An investment in understanding is truly the wisest investment of all."

[cnorhistorian]

d1ajax: Thank you for your three reasons for wrong perceptions: false assumptions, failure to see the big picture, missing important detail. Very good.

The problem with relying on gurus to find your truth is they can't do it. The doors to wisdom open only from the inside.

I think most people - and I am not saying this is true of you - want wisdom delivered to them instantly like fast food. That is why they are willing to pay big bucks for someone to do all the work and give them the all the answers.

The philosopher Hegel says "Truth is not a coin that can be pocketed ready made".

[Ajax]

@cnorhistorian Thank you for your thought provoking statements I agree with what you are saying and I especially like how you said "the doors to wisdom open only from the inside." It reminds me of how Socrates spent his life proving that all the best minds in the world don't really know anything.

There is also a world-wide pandemic of people who are afraid to take responsibility for their own lives and make your own decisions. They want someone to think for them so they depend on someone with "authority" to direct their lives. It doesn't have to just be a guru, it can be a doctor, it can be big pharma, it can be the news media, it can be pop celebrities... ad nauseum...

I think singling out gurus without identifying and addressing the root cause would result in fake growth.

 

[The Professor]

I think its important to consider that Leo is inviting us to actually meditate for long periods of time more than he is asking us to believe in a certain concept or idealogy.  

[Guest]

Sometimes we need leaders. We don't need them for permanent dependence but for some important tips and tricks. Human society only could build up because wisdom was taught from one to another. If everyone was so totally independent then each person would invent the wheel again. In the end we are a product of the people that were living before us. And we should be grateful for the achievements they did. Leo taught me a few nice things that I could've taught myself , but I guess it would take a little more time or maybe I would never even be able to get that far on my own. Who knows. Doesn't matter thinking about the alternatives. But I like to compare it with sports that you wanna learn. You can learn it on your own or you might connect with people that also wanna learn that sport or/and find a teacher. In the end I am here so that I will leave someday. I was in the nofap community so that I would get away from porn. I did it, so I left the community. But before I left I showed my whole gratitude and taught what I was able to teach. The same thing will happen here. It is not my life goal to listen to leaders. I will pass on my acquired knowledge that I consider worthy and leave this place.

[cnorhistorian]

I have learned from this site. My position is that you are able to learn from everything you encounter. And I express my gratitude.

In terms of how to handle relationships and career etc I very much agree with Leo

In terms of ultimate knowledge and purpose of life I don't agree and hence i don't agree with the vast majority of people attracted to his site.

I have entered some posts but had little response which is not surprising to me because I am not saying what participants on this site want to hear or even anything they can relate to.

Almost all the issues on this site are things i dealt with long ago. Not saying I can't learn more but they are no pressing issues for me.

I am not saying I am right, but I am right for me.

With due modesty but also with confidence I have mastered this life to a much higher degree than those hung up on religion or science or even professional neuroscience.

I have made a very postive contribution to my world and have had many people tell me so.

Many on this site say that the purpose of enlightenment is not to achieve peace of mind or emotional health.  Well I am sorry.  My position is that it is. We are in this life to make a difference. That is one of the meanings of "salvation"

I agree with Leo that salvation is not something imposed upon you but something you create inside yourself. You create that by knowing that you have made a positive contribution to the world. But you don't achieve that by doing good things so you will be rewarded.

It is not possible to have the answer to every question. But by the time you are 69 there should be more answers than questions.

 

[Guest]

@cnorhistorian Obvious isn't it?  This is an entry level site.  It's a good start but not everybody is really really ready to work on themselves anyway.  We all started off dabbling with concepts and tools and we've all ended up realising that none of them really work.  Some of us give up, some of us go onto do the work.  Better to be on here learning, who knows where it may lead.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  But yeah, well spotted.

[Consept]

@cnorhistorian  I agree to a certain extent, I think ultimately enlightenment is literally accepting everything for what it is including the fact that there are no definite answers. A lot of times you can get caught in mental traps where you feel like you're working toward something or some kind of conclusion when really there is no conclusion just a continuation of the process. 

I like Leo's videos as he does touch on topics that are not really being discussed and whether he's getting paid or not I think it's important to put these ideas into people's consciousness even if it's just a starting point. To that extent especially if there can be some appeal in the western world as the western world probably has the least understanding of these concepts but also the most power which is obviously not working out for the planet