Enlightenment Work During Sleep?

[cetus]

I sometimes awaken at night and there is a conversation about enlightenment that was happening while I was asleep. I wake to just the tail end of the conversation and only get the last few words of it. I lay there and think to myself, "I wish I could of heard the whole conversation"!  Also "who was I having the conversation with?" Last night I woke to a voice saying  "that's because there is bliss on the inside, and junk on the outside". Weird ! But it happens often. Other times I know there was a conversation going on, but I have no idea what was said. Not consciously anyway. Does anybody else experience any thing like that? Maybe that's common?

[Toby]

There are books/teachers that use Dreams/Lucid Dreaming/Dream Work in the context of Enlightenment. Most often these topics are used by people who imo are mainly concerned with what Shinzen Young would call the "power realms", which can sidetrack you.

Authors/teachers that have written books on the topic which I guess are genuine are Tenzin Wangyal, Namakhai Norbu (both tibetan tradition), Llewely Vaughan Lee (sufi tradition), Allan Wallace.

[Guivs]

35 minutes ago, Toby said:

There are books/teachers that use Dreams/Lucid Dreaming/Dream Work in the context of Enlightenment. Most often these topics are used by people who imo are mainly concerned with what Shinzen Young would call the "power realms", which can sidetrack you.

Authors/teachers that have written books on the topic which I guess are genuine are Tenzin Wangyal, Namakhai Norbu (both tibetan tradition), Llewely Vaughan Lee (sufi tradition), Allan Wallace.

+1 

If you are interested in this topic, I suggest that you check out the podcasts from upaya.org from about lucid dreaming and dream yoga. 

This is a podcast made of 13 parts that are around 45 min long each and that gives you a practical guide in how to develop lucid dreaming. 

Stick to it and apply the principles taught dilligently, then great are the chances that you will be having small experiences of lucid dreaming within one or two weeks.  

After a while you might even be able to develop lucidity in dreamless sleep, it will give you plenty of insights as well:) 

If you are interested and do not find the links of those podcasts, feel free to contact me and I'll send them to you.

Have a good day!

 

[ZenMonkey]

@cetus56 I remember a dream I had where I walked with Eckhart Tolle and he told me I have to be ready to die and then went into a void. I also had a dream with Mooji once. And one time I said in my dream "It is right here for those who have eyes and some endurance to look" and suddenly there were only body sensations and then a void.

Since then I am wondering if one could do self inquery during lucid dreaming. You could enquire all night long. That sounds wonderful.

 

[cetus]

@ZenMonkey Yes, it does sound wonderful. I wonder if we allow other perceptions to be experienced in sleep that we may refrain from normally.   Just wondering- did you go into the void in your dream? Did you experience the void or did you become non-existent within it? Any memories or impressions from that?

[Markus]

@Guivs Have you personally experienced lucidity in dreamless sleep? 

[ZenMonkey]

3 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

@ZenMonkey Yes, it does sound wonderful. I wonder if we allow other perceptions to be experienced in sleep that we may refrain from normally.   Just wondering- did you go into the void in your dream? Did you experience the void or did you become non-existent within it? Any memories or impressions from that?

I wrote down the dream after I woke up...that are my notes:

First I said "what arises, love that." Then I walked over a bridge and said “It’s right here for those who have eyes and some endurance to look.” Then I look at a bus and suddenly my body began to vibrate and I thought ”Already yet?” I got pulled upside down and a dark black whole opened under my head. I got pulled into the whole. I tried to surrender to it. Then there were only body sensations. A thought like “Maybe I die now” came and I thought about all my parents and friends and other people I might lose. I said “You ones have to take this leap.” My dream body disappeared whilst getting pulled into the whole and there was only darkness and void. I woke up and noticed my body vibrating.

That's just all mixed up. I think it is just what my mind thinks enlightment is so it doesn't have any meaning. The only thing I got from the dream is that there is some part of me which has the belief that it is not my time yet to get enlightend. So I did some contemplation on that in the waking state.

I don't know but I think it doesn't matter if you have other perceptions because the perceiver stays the same while you are dreaming? If you learnd to do lucid dreaming you just have so much more time you could use on self inquery in my eyes. But that's also mind again who jumps to all things exept to look and enquire what is now...

[Guivs]

@Markus Hi Markus, yes I have experienced lucid dreaming before, it is quite funny.:)

For instance, once, I was pursued by strangers in a small shop. Then, I realized this made no sense, I must be dreaming. As soon as it was clear, I remember thinking "Well, now, if I want to escape, why not go through the walls? which I did:)" 

The next step of practice in lucid dreaming for me would be : "if I am pursued by strangers and realize it's a dream, then I should not even try to escape them because it's a dream,and I should let them kill or beat me without any fear." But I have yet to do that

Here is what has helped me develop this ability, even though I am not yet advanced in the matter :

°During the day

1.Perform a lot of random checks during the day :

a)"Am I dreaming?" Look around, check if objects are subject to gravity, if you are at a place that is familiar etc.. This might sound ridiculous, but it teaches your subconscious to do it also during sleep

b) Everytime you receive something from someone, do something special, like touching your head for instance. If you receive something in a dream, you will do it also, and it might not feel the same and will give you doubt about the reality of what's happening.

c) Practice mindfulness of breathing throughout the day helps, it makes you more relaxed, and dreams will be clearer, less foggy

d) Practice shamatha (taking the mind as the object) : you can start by saying a sentence in your mind like "This is the mind". Then, you will know where to look

 

e) Have this strong thought in mind quite a few times during the day: "Tonight, I will have a dream, and I will know it is a dream"

°Before you sleep

a) Have this intention / prospective thought : "When I'll wake up, I will not move AT ALL, not open my eyes, and not grasp anything". This is not directly related to lucid dreaming, but you might experience the basic level of the mind this way ( great meditation shortcut, if I can say)

b) Mindfulness of breathing : Relax all body parts before you sleep ! At worst, it will enhance the quality of your sleep

c) Say to yourself : " I will check for anomalies, (if gravity still works, you have 5 fingers...)"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       d) Look around and say "If I am in this room and should not be in another place. If I am in such another place, it will be strange, too strange."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         e) Just before you sleep, release awareness from everything, eyes closed. Be aware of being aware, not doing anything. This can lead to falling asleep lucidly (BUT it takes practice ).                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The thing is, in a regular dream, no matter what happens in it, you got it wrong at then end. Why ? Because you did not know it was a dream! Also, once you are lucid in a dream, possibilities are endless. You are not bound to your body and could meditate easily, just sit down in your dream and start Also, it will give you insights into the dream-like nature of the waking state also,and that the sense of an Independent self is a dream also.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   After a dream you can say : " None of the dreams I had last night remained in the waking state. Likewise none of the daytime things remained into the dream state. They are just as non objective as dream appearances. Both states are illusions. " Be careful thought not to become nihilistic, it is not because things are empty of inherent existence that it does not matter what you do. Because things are empty of inherent existence, they are impermanent and the law of causality applies. There is both a conventional truth (cause-effect) and absolute truth (emptiness)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hope that helps  

[Guivs]

@Marcus And as far as dreamless sleep is concerned, it has happened twice. 

It is similar to some really deep states of meditation when the environment disappears and the senses stop functioning.:)

Actually, it is like having access to the most basic level of the mind.

[Toby]

He was asking about deep sleep/dreamless sleep, I guess?

Edit: sorry didn't see your post. Cool that you experienced it.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Toby

[cetus]

That's interesting! The reason I asked about the void was, Once when I was meditating I experienced pure being. There was just a silent essence of myself. Just floating in infinite silence. Very peacefully. Blissfully. I had a whisper of a thought to totally let go and merge into that blissful silence. Than I disappeared into nothingness. I became non-existent. I only realized that after I returned to that state of pure being and silent bliss. After that experience happened I thought to myself, becoming the void is nothing to be afraid of because you don't exist when it happens. When I referred to other perceptions, I was eluding to perceiving higher realms. I wonder if those higher realms surround us always and we are actually occupying then now. And during sleep we sometimes directly access them. Also when we pass on we go back into the higher realm. From there we chose (as pure being) to come back again to the manifest realm (reincarnation) to work on ourselves and to help others in their journey. It's all or none, so to speak. Have we all decided to be here by choice? Do we all know in our hearts what we truly are, even though we may not be obvious from this point of view (the manifest realm). But everyone here is trying to remember what we truly are. Something bigger is driving all of us on this search. Who knows? Whatever it is it's way beyond the thinking mind.

[Markus]

@Guivs Interesting. For how long have you practiced?

[Guivs]

@Markus

Practice as a whole, a few years

As far as dream practice is concerned, I've only been into it since a few months, which is not much by any means.

At first, I thought it was something way out of my reach, but with diligent practice, you have your first lucid dream in no time. 

Oh, and yes, here is a method taught by Alan Wallace that helps in increasing the chances of having a lucid dream

Once in a while (if you are one of those people that fall asleep easily :)), set your alarm clock a couple of hours before your normal waking time. Then, wake up and read something about lucid dreaming for 30 minutes or so, and go back to sleep right after. This will enhance the probabilities of having lucid dreams right then. 

The most important thing is to develop those random state checks during the day, and to activate the prospective thought ("I will check for anomalies and I will be lucid in the dream" )

Of course, like I said before, I am a beginner with regards to this.

And maybe someone more experienced will develop this fascinating topic further  

[cetus]

I was in to lucid dreaming a couple of years ago. I made a mental note to become aware the next time I was dreaming, and sure enough I did. It's a balancing  of not totally waking yourself by getting all excited because your aware your doing it, but still remaining in a semi- dream state. I only did it a few times. I could see that if you practiced, you could probably get really good at it. It would be a thought-form reality at your disposal. Just don't get side tracked. It's just more stuff.  But fun though!

[cetus]

@Guivs Were all making a mental note of it now and setting our mental alarm clocks to wake us when we reach dream state. It will most likely happen. lol, I wonder what I'll awaken into now! lol

Edited March 4, 2016 by cetus56

[Markus]

13 hours ago, Guivs said:

@Markus

 

As far as dream practice is concerned, I've only been into it since a few months, which is not much by any means.

 

That is quite encouraging , to be able to make significant progress in such short time.