Enlightenment questions

[Crystalous]

OK I got some question about enlightenment.The first one is if enlightened people judge.I am sure enlightened masters don't judge but is it the same with a normal enlightened person?A normal enlightened person does it have internal dialog of thoughts?If you are "basically" enlightened and they give you drugs that lowers you consciousness with regular use like cocaine heroine meth or strong psychotherapy medication can you become egoic again and forget the wisdom you gained?If you had the first permanent enlightenment can psychedelics may help you go deeper and upgrade to the next enlightened level?Does physical pain feels bad for them?We are not enlightened and we can't answer them all but I want your opinion!

Edited March 21, 2018 by Crystalous

[deci belle]

hi Crystalous~ that's a lot of questions!

It is so very important to ask these questions too!

Enlightenment is not the person. Who asks? Enlightenment is itself the question, and enlightenment is itself the answer.

One's enlightening function is activated to the degree the person stops acting compulsively based of views of self and other.

Self and other aren't changed, and enlightening activity isn't based on self/other dynamics.

Seeing self and other without compulsively identifying as the situational personality is all it amounts to.

That much doesn't even depend on sudden enlightenment happening to you.

The reason why is that enlightenment is already the nature of awareness.

Though ordinary people are aware, they are not awake. What's the difference? Ordinary people use consciousness to create illusion.

As for those whose enlightening potential is functionally non-dual with respect to everyday ordinary situations, the simple fact is that reality and delusion looks exactly the same to them (because those two aspects of duality are the same). But only those who are awake see reality— whereas ordinary people see delusion simply due to the fact that delusion is the act of seeing self and other compulsively through identifying as the situational personality.

And acting on such presumption (selfishness) is what results in consequences that perpetuate the illusion of the false self. Consequences is what constitutes karmic bondage.

Since enlightenment is not the person, nor is it relative to the person, who would judge personally? Objectivity is the hallmark of enlightening being. Instantaneous knowledge transcends discriminatory consciousness. Judgement, is relative to the self, whereas knowledge is absolute. If you know what it is, who it is, how it is …what's to judge? Who's to judge? What could there be to act on? There is no "who" relative to knowledge. It just is. Enlightening response is relative to the power of unrefined potential inherent in the situation itself. Enlightening being isn't the person. It's spiritual.

If reality and delusion are the same, how is that so?

It is only in seeing reality by virtue of non-psychological awareness that individuals are able to see without identifying with the person seeing. It is seeing alone which constitutes enlightenment. There is no other enlightenment. That seeing is impersonal or selfless. Selfless is the nature of awareness. It's not good or bad. It certainly isn't self or other! But it's not different either. It is simply what constitutes unity, that is, reality.

Those who see reality, actually see delusion as non-dual. That is how enlightenment works in terms of everyday ordinary situations.

As for internal dialog, real knowledge is not a matter of words. Internal dialog is a habit that only serves to perpetuate the false self by cultivating and grooming a sense of self, relative to others.

Mental hygiene is basically cultivated by perpetually observing the thinking mind by the non-thinking mind. It's not that there are two minds. Mind is one, and mind is the true self that has never thought a thought, much to the chagrin of the false self who uses awareness to create illusion.

You are already a "normal enlightened person" because you don't know your own mind right now. Your own basic mind right now is already enlightenment itself but you don't see it because the basic mind is completely occupied with perpetuating the illusions of psychological momentums that have no beginning. Clinging to such momentums perpetuates karmic evolution and further solidifies its tendencies.

That's why you say that we are not enlightened. But enlightenment has no tendencies; it is spontaneously as is.

Since delusion and reality both have no beginning, and mind is one, how can we arrive at seeing the truth of the matter of life and death?

Somehow, it is possible to stop acting on illusion, and therefore stop perpetuating bondage to it.

Quote

A normal enlightened person does it have internal dialog of thoughts?If you are "basically" enlightened and they give you drugs that lowers you consciousness with regular use like cocaine heroine meth or strong psychotherapy medication can you become egoic again and forget the wisdom you gained?

Drugs can have a (hopefully) temporary effect on the calcified habit-energy already dominating the thinking mentality. Certain drugs affect certain people a certain way, in that it is possible to use drugs effectively, in order to break up the learned psychological certainty of an absolute selfhood, based on the thinking mentality. But only certain people at certain times during their lives, are susceptible to the the advantageous use of certain drugs, for the purpose of breaking down the the certainty of the false self without damaging its beneficial aspects. Ego is inherently unstable. One must have a healthy, light-hearted, good-natured, non-calculating sobriety in order to approach the use of drugs without developing psychological and physical dependancies on the chemical, neurological and sensual elements involved in experiencing their effects.

People who spontaneously see their nature and experience sudden enlightenment realize that they have never existed (nor has anything existed). As such, enlightenment is already what is innate without even being created; without you even being created. People who see this and know this realize that enlightenment doesn't change anything because enlightenment is itself the Changeless. Awareness is miraculously so~ no one knows why it is the way it is. It is our true selflessly so nature, complete and perfect in every way.

Since we are created, it is a long (natural) process to reverse the incrementality of karmic bondage and instantaneously revert to the uncreated source of our essential nature and it is also a long process to integrate the experience and inherent power of the Absolute in our lives in its aftermath. "People become buddhas and buddhas become people."

Therefore, people who experience their nature aren't any different before or after seeing their nature. What that means (to answer your very astute question), is that ego is not a bad thing at all. Ego is a function of the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die. So to "become egoic again and forget the wisdom you gained" isn't the issue because enlightenment can't be gained. Nothing is gained by complete perfect enlightenment.

The individual who experiences the Absolute is not different nor the same because just this is the nature of inconceivability. Knowledge of not-knowing has its effect on those who experience open selfless primal awakening to inherent non-origination. Ultimately, there is absolutely nothing to know but by virtuous reception of inherent potential through nature of awareness itself. The phenomenal realm is to be adapted to on its terms without attachment to outcomes. Adapting through potential directly, there is nothing else and there is nothing left to do by enlightenment.

By virtue of delusion, one sees reality step by gradual step. Seeing reality does not depend on experiencing sudden enlightenment— neither before nor after. The gradual and the sudden are a seamless continuum. When conditions meet, reality is perpetually on the brink. This is arrival; presence: resting in the highest good.

The real issue in terms of the aftermath of seeing essence (seeing your nature) is that habit energy CAN re-assert itself by degrees. That's why it is necessary for people to practice gradual self-refinement before AND after sudden illumination, by watching over the thinking mind 24/7, so as to avoid following it unawares.

That alone is the best thing people can practice. Mind watching mind in terms of the created is not so different than mind seeing mind in terms of the absolute. Mind is one.

Entry into the inconceivable is seeing that Creation is not other than the Absolute. This is the meaning of unified awareness~ not that it means something, because there is no intrinsic meaning nor is there anything psychologically or physiologically relative to Thusness. 

The whole point of enlightenment (relative to enlightening activity) is that we learn to adapt enlightenment to delusional conditions. Why? Because enlightenment is not separate from ignorance. Seeing your nature is one thing, but learning to make it the essence of your life is quite another.

Enlightenment is the vehicle; delusion is the path.

 

 

ed note: add "What could there be to act on?…" 12th; add most of the 21st (after the quote); add most of 24th and 25th paragraphs

Edited March 21, 2018 by deci belle

[Nahm]

18 hours ago, Crystalous said:

OK I got some question about enlightenment.The first one is if enlightened people judge.I am sure enlightened masters don't judge but is it the same with a normal enlightened person?A normal enlightened person does it have internal dialog of thoughts?If you are "basically" enlightened and they give you drugs that lowers you consciousness with regular use like cocaine heroine meth or strong psychotherapy medication can you become egoic again and forget the wisdom you gained?If you had the first permanent enlightenment can psychedelics may help you go deeper and upgrade to the next enlightened level?Does physical pain feels bad for them?We are not enlightened and we can't answer them all but I want your opinion!

Psychedelics can do this. Without a proper foundation,  you’ll revert back.  Without continued alignment, you’ll revert back. Homeostasis is something to be very aware of. The traps of having figured it out, and being right, and knowing, are things to be aware of.