Thoughts on MGTOW

[Steph1988]

i stumbled upon these MGTOW (men going their own way) video's on youtube about 3 years ago and they are one of the things that got me going on self development.

If you don't know what it is i would urge all guys to check it out and have an open mind about it.

Now listening to several channels over the years these video's did not make me more angry with woman but actually less angry,the philosophy seems rock solid, you might dismiss it at first glance but i stuck with it for a time and there is not a single solid counterargument to it, the only thing is that u better not take it too far.

although if u found good counter arguments let me know please i want to keep an open mind at all times.

For the guys (well probably guys) familiar with it i would like to hear your thoughts on it if u have any.

 

[d0ornokey]

It's cool but there's a lot of women shaming that occurs on those channels. Outside of that, the general philosophy of focusing on yourself is lit. It's also entertaining lol

Not hating, this is just my analysis of it. A lot of dudes have been hurt and they circle jerk about "fuck women". Like there are channels dedicated to nitpicking things that women do wrong and pulling individual cases of women and generalizing all women as such. 

Seems like a trap to me but I'm curious of your opinion though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/

Edited March 19, 2018 by d0ornokey

[Deep]

@Steph1988 I think MGTOW is against marriage because the courts favor women. The men are afraid of losing their wealth and custody of children. If you find a good woman, marriage is definitely worth it. Relationships with good women are worth it. 

[Steph1988]

@d0ornokey My opinion on it, i could write a whole book about it if i was a good writer  i'm gonna think about it for sometime and write my opinion here soon, at least i will try because it is actually a very difficult and nuanced thing.

 

[Hardkill]

5 hours ago, Steph1988 said:

i stumbled upon these MGTOW (men going their own way) video's on youtube about 3 years ago and they are one of the things that got me going on self development.

If you don't know what it is i would urge all guys to check it out and have an open mind about it.

Now listening to several channels over the years these video's did not make me more angry with woman but actually less angry,the philosophy seems rock solid, you might dismiss it at first glance but i stuck with it for a time and there is not a single solid counterargument to it, the only thing is that u better not take it too far.

although if u found good counter arguments let me know please i want to keep an open mind at all times.

For the guys (well probably guys) familiar with it i would like to hear your thoughts on it if u have any.

 

I really feel their pain. In fact, I've been inclined to join it. Dating has gotten so hard these days and it's like no matter what we or what we try we will still feel like social losers. It's a very sorry sight. 

I used to really feel very similar to this. Though, I feel the same level of frustration and rage this guy felt in this video.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Hardkill

[Ayilton]

I feel like it's a sensitive topic  !  My opinion it's that MGTOW it's kool  , I have resonated with the idea and that's also the reason I got into self help  ! 

It's good to tell man that they are worth.. Cause sometimes you need some encouragement words to live up to your full potential but there is a need to go further... Each man should use his pain.. And transform it  into something positive to the world  ! 

It's a good beginning if your struggling with sex and girls for a really long time but after some time you gonna have to give up and try to understand why the fuck you can't get laid  !  

Make your priority number one  ,  stop winning  ,  research it,  ask people and discover for yourself what the fuck is happening in dating and female mind  ! 

There sure must a reason why many guys don't get laid  ,  discover this truth and align yourself to it  

Peace 

[WildeChilde]

I'll go ahead and "come out of the closet".  

I'm a MGTOW and have been decidedly one for around 4 to 5 years.  I say decidedly because I already had a MGTOW lifestyle before I learned about the philosophy, terminology, community, etc.  

Just like spirituality, I think men come to MGTOW for different reasons.  Some men were treated poorly in relationships, so they come in with a lot of hurt.  Some men never find much success with women, so they come in looking for an excuse to stay out of the game.  Some men simply enjoy the freedom of being single while avoiding all of the problems associated with marriage and long-term relationships.  This is where I’ve always found myself.  I love women, but I have one life.  I simply cannot be tied down.  

I shared this video with another user not too long ago on this very topic. 

 

[Steph1988]

Ok so for me i just find a lot of aspects of what they have to say just simply interesting and useful.

MGTOW is extremely varied and it is not really a group they just agree on a few fundamental things and it is backed up by a lot of research and data.

I think for a guy to be learning about hypergamy,gynocentrism,game can be extremely enlightening and dangerous at the same time but i think u got to take that plunge, the research speaks for itself often and what i see in real life confirms a lot of it as well as there not being good counterarguments.

Then the discussion to me is less about if it is all a lie it simply isn't and becomes more about how to handle it.

first off all i have never been seriously hurt by a woman iv'e been rejected and friend zoned and flaked as i clumsily tried to win approval as a lot of guys do but it did not REALLY hurt me as to make me hateful and bitter.

I have not been seriously after a woman for several years iv'e just let it rest for a while  instead working on other aspects of my life which were not in order but i plan to do the dating game again now with new eyes completely.

i just took away the useful lessons i have learned,

- to look past appearances way better

- to handle my finances ( buying a house on just 1 income, saving money,investing instead of frivolous spending )

- to hold people accountable 

- don't listen always what people say but look at what they do just watch for a while and say nothing

Now i would like to have a relationship and a family one day but that whole endeavor needs a very solid foundation so make sure u took what u wanted out of life to a degree , save your money,make sure your house is on your name, have good habits and standards.

I am interested only in truth and u cannot beat biology and millions of years of evolution no amount of propaganda can make that undone.

But i don't really take it personally nature does what nature always does, it equips species with the tools it needs to survive.

Also if u want to delve into this stuff learn from a lot of sources and don't look at the guys that are only just angry but look at the difficult stuff with an open mind, look at the philosophical and scientific oriented MGTOW channels and u see also a lot of overlap with what Leo has to day actually.

That is how i look at it.

 

[Spiral]

I don't really have much against them and they do often have a point, although I don't think the pump and dump attitude is very admirable or something that should be promoted.

They often hold objectifying views and revel in the misfortunes of modern day indoctrinated girls. So rational arguments are fine, certain attitudes are not imo.

Now i'm not mgtow but i can definitely see the appeal. A strangely huge percentage is unfaithful. I mean probably most of them are faithful but still it's alarming, because i regularly meet girls who are not only cheat but are even completely open about as well.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Spiral

[Psyche_92]

I share this opinion: 

 

[Steph1988]

@Psyche_92 I have seen that, i can see where he is coming from and it would probably apply to a great number of men who gave up on the game way to fast and just get bitter and angry and then calling themselves MGTOW.

But again look further into it and u see actually successful MGTOW guys.

Rollo Tomassi for example is one of the biggest names and he wrote the rationale male, well he is happily married with kids.

It would not make sense if you did not look into it carefully enough and i find it a pity that Jordan Peterson dismissed it so quickly, he actually judged too fast.

And i like Peterson too i followed all his courses on the internet but he made a mistake here i think it deserves a much closer look.

 

[SFRL]

25 minutes ago, Psyche_92 said:

I share this opinion: 

 

 

Well this is his more nuanced opinion:

 

 

[Hardkill]

“Stop being so angry and bitter and find a better dating strategy.” What if I’ve already tried practically every dating strategy out there and I am still struggling like a loser? What if there is no dating for some guys not because of their attitude, but because they simply don’t have the natural latent ability to learn it? Like singing, not everyone can learn to be a good singer gave their last dying breath for it. Being an athlete, not everyone can learn to be a good athlete even if they gave their blood, sweat, and tears for it. Not everyone can make it into the acting industry even if they devoted their entire lives to it. I remember P Diddy saying “you can’t just teach someone how to be a star.” U also, can’t just have positive attitude and passion for something in order to succeed at it. It’s all about RAW TALENT. Believe me, I’ve tried for years working very hard at this whole dating process and doing crazy shit that not even most mortal men would even dare to do. I reached the point where I felt so hopeless, depressed, and incredibly outraged and frustrated. Dating to me feels so futile, that it’s like I am fighting a long-drawn out battle that I’ll probably never win regardless of what I’ll try or how hard I try or even how much I let go and try my best to move forward.

Maybe someone here could convince me that I am wrong because I still feel a lot like that Kent TV guy I just posted here.

Btw, I’ve already heard all of the cliche stories out there before, like “It took Thomas Edison thousands of tries to finally get it right,” “Michael Jordan was cut from the Basketball team numerous times before he became a successful pro basketball player and subsequently became the GOAT legend of NBA” or “Abraham Lincoln, lost many elections before he became the next great President of the US,” blah, blah, blah. Those notions don’t always work for everyone. 

What do u guys think?

[SirImprovement]

I get where they're coming from. The reason why I plan to never get married (via Government) was because of MGTOW. However, I intend to get married from within a church, as I am still seeking for a long-time partner (Australia's common law is different to America's I believe). I mean no offence to what I am about to say, but I believe most MGTOW's don't know what true love is. I think that they see a "relationship" as a Hollywood type of love, so; when a woman burns their expectations of that fantasy, they become angry and hate female nature. 

I thoroughly believe that in nature, men and women are different, but that doesn't mean we can't work together. I know from personal experience, that relationships CAN last, differing from person to person. The more "mature" and "wiser" couples tend to be happier. Heck, my aunty's husband passed away, and she had to take anti-depressant just to handle the pain for a year. Also, i'd advise to look at the other side of the coin, from a female's perspective. After discovering MGTOW, I looked at post of women loving and appreciating their S/O on social media, photo's, etc. There are even women online right now who are still grieving over the deaths of their husbands. Mind you, these women are in their 60's-70's.

So, that's my opinion of MGTOW. Tl;dr: I understand their stance on the unfair divorce court + marriage laws, but they have misinturpeted view of what "love" is.

3 hours ago, Steph1988 said:

 

 

 

[Steph1988]

@Hardkill Maybe let it rest for a few years and work on yourself become financially independant, find a hobby or passion, get going to the gym 3-4 days a week.

check  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyjTrLPICgp_b8idy71axYg/videos this channel btw, it offers a different approach to the whole problem,he concentrates on the concept of SMV ( sexual market value ) it is different from game and all that shit although u probably u have to learn that as well a little bit.

But at least noone has to send u on a mission to degrade yourself in clubs, u work on yourself first and u see where u end up.

then after a few years of doing that u start again with regained confidence in yourself and your future.

This is just a possible route for you, it is not original at all i know.

Also one thing, life is not only about getting laid i know guys who have no problem getting sex but are very unhappy in other area's it really is not everything, it is just one aspect of a whole list of things that needs to be worked on but sometimes i guess and for some people it is later on the list, sucks of course but who cares u get it later then.

not getting woman for now sucks but that is nothing compared to the extremely suffocating experience of being deeply in debt for example.

[WildeChilde]

@Hardkill "I reached the point where I felt so hopeless, depressed, and incredibly outraged and frustrated."

It's a rough time for men in general right now.  I'm not going to delve too deeply into the politics of it, but just know most of this is stuff you're experiencing is not by accident.  I'm not a fan of this news channel, but Tucker makes some pretty good, well-researched points on this issue.

 

[Hardkill]

33 minutes ago, Steph1988 said:

@Hardkill Maybe let it rest for a few years and work on yourself become financially independant, find a hobby or passion, get going to the gym 3-4 days a week.

check  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyjTrLPICgp_b8idy71axYg/videos this channel btw, it offers a different approach to the whole problem,he concentrates on the concept of SMV ( sexual market value ) it is different from game and all that shit although u probably u have to learn that as well a little bit.

But at least noone has to send u on a mission to degrade yourself in clubs, u work on yourself first and u see where u end up.

then after a few years of doing that u start again with regained confidence in yourself and your future.

This is just a possible route for you, it is not original at all i know.

Also one thing, life is not only about getting laid i know guys who have no problem getting sex but are very unhappy in other area's it really is not everything, it is just one aspect of a whole list of things that needs to be worked on but sometimes i guess and for some people it is later on the list, sucks of course but who cares u get it later then.

not getting woman for now sucks but that is nothing compared to the extremely suffocating experience of being deeply in debt for example.

I already tried for several months now and yeah my confidence has been restored to a degree. Though it’s not happening fast enough. I still feel like I am hanging by a thread.

[d0ornokey]

17 hours ago, Hardkill said:

I already tried for several months now and yeah my confidence has been restored to a degree. Though it’s not happening fast enough. I still feel like I am hanging by a thread.

you try a life coach?

What helped me a lot: 

1. Life coach

2. Daily reiteration of values & confidence sheet in the morning (restores confidence in me everyday and regrounds me on my vision in the morning) 

3. Daily meditation 

4. Daily exercise 

5. Sadhguru's yoga for success 

6. Neurofeedback!! 100% get this. It's as close to a magic pill that you can get... Thank you Leo for your research.  I log my mood everyday, and after neurofeedback, it's consistently been double than it was before neurofeedback. 

 

I noticed that when I eat like shit, I feel like SHIT. Yesterday, I ate 2 desserts from wendys and had Moe's burrito bowl (which is cancer). I feel like shit right now lol... 

Edited March 20, 2018 by d0ornokey

[Hardkill]

11 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

you try a life coach?

 

Not yet. Though I will one day, once I've saved up enough money for it.

[Simon Zackrisson]

I recently came into contact with these perspectives.

I love it, but it also gives me a bitter taste.

 

I don't at all really resonate with the sharpness of its weapons.

Like, I've been into RSD and shit before, not to say I've been at all ignoring the less charming aspects of female psychology before
I do love to see as many perspectives as possible

And I think its FUCKING CRUCIAL to be aware of the essentials of what like mgtow and such speak about . 

But i dont resonate with like the hatred, i maybe still be naive, but i think i will still want to choose to love and appreciate women, feminine energy

my current idea is that its possible to choose to be the nice guy, as long as you TRULY are the wolf too, and have it deadset under control and understand what pathetic scenarios it might spiral into if you do not pay attention .